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The Yes on Prop. 8 Blog Roll

Photobucket Yesterday the Yes on Prop. 8 campaign held a “Sick Out” where they kept their children home from school in protest of the $1 million dollar donation by the CTA.

Funny how the boy who picks on my son for having two moms wasn’t at school yesterday. Note to Yes on Prop h8ers, depriving your kids of an education is not the answer to The Marriage Crisis you have brought upon us all. This post is for all of the Yes on Prop. 8 advocates online who have contributed to the discriminatory measure by spreading their lies about what they call The Gay Agenda. Let me tell you, my gay agenda is to raise my children and make a positive impact on this world. So Prop 8 backers, what is your agenda? To Protect Marriage? Then Protect Mine!! Vote NO on Prop 8! But you won’t. You’ll probably go back to your blog and post about the angry lesbian who linked your page. Well, your damn right I’m angry and hell yes I linked your page. You know why?? Because the website you all promote so much, ProtectMarriage.com, won’t even link you themselves. Oh sure, they have a form to fill out for a ‘BlogRoll’ and tell you to give up your email and they will link your blog. But all they did was harvest your email to send you convoluted messages about how you should proceed in denying a whole group of people a basic human right.

Along with that goes my children’s health coverage, and other things you haven’t even thought about.

All your kids that were kept home yesterday were able to have either parent sign their absence note. So my children don’t deserve that right? Is either parent in your family forced to wait in the hallway at the doctor’s office, even in an emergency for you or your kids? What about your taxes? What if you couldn’t claim your own children on your taxes??

So here you go!

Below is a list of the latest bloggers to post a message advocating Proposition 8 in California, which effectively strips away the rights of thousands of households across the state. These bloggers have no problem telling us we are sexual deviants, fake families, social misfits and what have you. With Election Day so close, the LGBT community can’t afford to let these people believe their own BS any longer!

I encourage all readers of this post, whether you are FOR or AGAINST Proposition 8 to stand up and come out now!!

Here is a list of blogs that are FOR Prop 8 go ahead and add any others you know of in a comment, maybe your own. Let’s open the discussion let’s talk about it. Let’s clear the air. You think we are full of it, we think you are. We are angry and so are you. Emotions are escalating and leading to despair on both sides. We want you to know how we feel… we feel like second class citizens. Whatever side your on we need to just get our feelings out and known. Then voters will have a clear picture of the TRUTH when they vote on November 4th.

So visit these blogs and tell them how you feel about Proposition 8!!!

BeetleBabee
AbbeyEarth
the Mitt Blog
Real Tolerance
Two Blog Right/
Akinas 4 prop 8
California Crusader
MamaPro
WKA Neen
The Coffeys
The Orange Juice Blog (*No on 8 site, but this is a Yes on 8 blogger giving perspective.)
John Malloy
Benjamin 8
Brady Bunch Mom
Darin 4 Family
Chicker Pen
Protecting Marriage
Couple for 8
NRL 4 Prop 8
The Twilight Plains
Fan 0mm
The Rogue Quill
Christo Centric
Protecting Marriage Prop 8
1 Rad Dad
Champions of Marriage
Forester Inc
The Scoggin Family
Turn It Down

Plus here are some YouTube Channels broadcasting for Yes on Prop. 8…

here
here
here
here
here
here
here
and
here

And in case you haven’t seen this one before, it’s extremely fitting for this post:

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Julie Phineas Julie Phineas is a work at home mom of 2 who lives in Southern California. You can find out more about her online by visiting her website at www.juliephineas.com.

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182 Responses to The Yes on Prop. 8 Blog Roll

  1. Anonymous

    November 6, 2008 at 1:50 am

    I think the gay community needs to stop. They have gone behind the backs of so many and still have failed to get their prop passed. Dont you think its about time you people stop? Homosexuality is a child of our culture. HUMANS are not naturally gay for gods sake. Do you really think cavemen were gay? Really? You people are freaks.

  2. ~Julie Phineas~

    November 6, 2008 at 1:05 am

    to any and all with religious arguments there is only one answer for you and that is SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

  3. ~Julie Phineas~

    November 6, 2008 at 1:03 am

    We stole rights? Come on! Rights are basic, fundamental. What are you ten??

    Enough people? Out of ten million people over 4.5 million of them said NO. Only about a 500,000 vote difference… do the math… how many people did you lie to, blackmail, and use scare tactics on?? Admit it, if the African American vote had turned out for Obama like they did, Prop 8 just might have been struck down. Sad but true. And what am I supposed to go and be straight now? Live a lie, and accept that I am second class with unequal rights but I pay the same taxes??

    Suppose I should only incur half as much tax as you as I am getting only half the rights. That sales tax they increased included.

  4. Anonymous

    November 6, 2008 at 12:38 am

    I think it’s funny that the gay community see the poll results and think they have come a long way since 2000. Get real. This was your best shot, and you know it. You went behind the backs of the voters and had judges do your bidding for you, and it almost worked. The strategy was to get gay marriage approved through litigation (not democracy)so when the proposition came up in this election (which it was destined to anyway)prop 8 proponents would come off as bigots for trying to steal rights from people (which I would like to mention were stolen in the first place). Enough people saw through the deception of your campaign and stuck with their choice from 2000. Now when you try this same stunt again, everybody already knows your game plan and you slide backwards.

    And by the way, prop 8 only defined marriage, it does not stop anybody from getting married. Same sex couples can still get married, just not to eachother

  5. Anonymous

    November 5, 2008 at 10:23 pm

    WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO GAY COUPLES AS A RESULT OF PROP 8 PASSING?

    Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

    Marriage is a piece of paper, a matter of semantics. A few years ago society threw marriage out as a viable institution anyway. The gay rights are all there, at least here in California. Nothing was taken away except to call your unions “marriage”. we won’t see gays thrown into the street, families broken up, driven from state to state (California’s the friendliest for them anyway,) no gays will be put into gas chambers, fired from their jobs, murdered. Just keep up the whiny bitter “we lost everything” radio ads–people will be less sympathetic than they were before. Quit your whining about your “rights” to marriage. marriage is what WE as a total people define, that is not up to a 2% minority. The country is awake. Wait and let the process proceed, gay rights have come a long way in a few years (as they should) and no lashback on domestic partnership, etc, until marriage. Right? This is not about hate or the people would have fought gays every step of the way before now. We were all watching. None of us said a word. And we didn’t! Don’t tell me that voting for 8 is hate! That will do so much damage for your cause, showing your hatred and disdain, “wait until we can get our revenge” attitude. That threatening posture (ala Newsom) did not help you, where tolerance and understanding will. I know that’s asking alot of you, you’ve been through so much and find it hard to tolerate. Understandable.
    Wanna know what real intolerance is? Ask the Jews and the Mormons. They experienced the above. (The Jews, worse.)
    Of course, none of the above will help you. You’ve got to come to that realization yourselves.

    Off topic: I didn’t vote for Obama, but I am not upset that he won. It is AWESOME. He WON.
    If he is what he would seem to be (only time will tell) he may prove to be a great leader–which we’ve lacked. For a long time. He is my president, I will back and support him as best I can, and hope he takes on that mantle with wisdom and foresight.

    back to topic: Gays, you are some of the smartest, most talented segments of this society. You will not get there with hate and anger. I’m not telling you to give up the fight. Get at least domestic rights in every state. Get the country on your side for that. Leave marriage alone, “gay love” is “gay love.” All legal relationships should be “civil unions” with the same rights anyway, marriage has too much connotation to it for too many people. 30 states now have constitutional amendments like California’s now–and growing. You will NOT win that battle. Don’t be stupid. Gay love is not the same, never will be. Straights aren’t gonna want their kids indoctrinated by state mandated equality there. if kids decide for gay lifestyle they will find their own way. Gay is its own lifestyle and institution of sorts. Religion is not a smoke screen for hate. There are thousands of years of tradition which teach those who believe that way, and they are still a majority without any particular malice towards you. People could come to have malice if you keep up the nastiness. We all have our harnesses to wear–

    “Freedom Fighter”

  6. iguanaboy

    November 5, 2008 at 9:53 pm

    Okay, I am not a violent protester. I am not going to swear or throw titles. But the problem is that they want to teach that homosexuality is a normal thing in the public school system. THAT I have a big problem with. Homosexuality is NOT normal. I don’t care how many gay rights activists call me a bigot. Just because a few people deviate from their inherent sexuality doesn’t mean that it should be forced upon everyone else. THAT is unconstitutional. As soon as we give you an inch, you take a mile. It’s bad enough that you insist on the lifestyle you do instead of looking at homosexuality as what it is: a mental illness that needs to be treated. So, be my guest. Keep fighting for your “gay rights”. I will keep fighting for the rights that this country was founded on, and the Person that it was founded under.

  7. Sei

    November 5, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    Anonymous,

    That is already what they are saying. They are also advocating the shutting down of Catholic Churches. They are also advocating the shutting down of any Church which is not affiliated with them.

    You laid down with dogs, and now you have fleas. One day, they will come for YOUR church and for YOUR Bible, and YOU will be the one crying out about YOUR rights.

    After all, you haven’t listened to what THEY have to say.

  8. Anonymous

    November 5, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    “End the hate”

    That’s what they say. Next thing you know, that’s what the polygamists will say; then the incest advocates and pedophiles; and, after that, the infanticide proponents.

    I’ll give it a decade- 15 years tops, before these people will sound like the gay agenda.

    And gay marriage is outlawed for 2 reasons:
    Democratically let the people decide what marriage is (this is a free republic where majority rules, remember?) and not a couple of activist judges (ahem: judicial tyranny);
    Second, preserve the definition of marriage, as has been the case for thousands of years in every culture, society, religion, and nation. You want rights, then get a civil union. Don’t like it, get over it. It’s a sacred union that is defined by tradition and popular opinion.

    That’s almost like shutting down Muslim mosques and telling them they can’t say that Mohammed was the messenger of God because there are some people outside those walls who beg to differ. Bottom line: respect people’s opinions and traditional definitions of marriage. Not that difficult. If you do, it will make everyone’s lives easier, especially yours. Thanks you.

  9. ~Julie Phineas~

    November 5, 2008 at 5:12 am

    OPEN YOUR EYES… Don’t you see how many people OPPOSE YOU!!! You are getting a run for your money aren’t you??

  10. Anonymous

    November 5, 2008 at 3:42 am

    Hell yes! YES ON 8 I pray to god it passes. I can’t stand to think of the butt-fucking faggots being given marriage rights. God forsaken homosexual shit bags.

  11. p.Johanna

    November 5, 2008 at 2:48 am

    learn how to write. learn how to speak ENGLISH, then post.

  12. Anonymous

    November 5, 2008 at 2:43 am

    prop 8 passed…go read the bible if you need to know what is right and wrong…maybe your illiterate so you cant read it, that could be a possibility. Most likely your not and you can read…let me just reiterate for you what the bible says and what prop. 8 says…MARRAGE=MAN+WOMAN…if you cant swallow this then im sorry not my problem. Im not the one going to hell because i dont read and listen to my bible.

  13. ~Julie Phineas~

    November 4, 2008 at 11:34 pm

    you wont have to tell us just like we wont have to tell you. all the votes havent been counted and just look at the fight we’ve given you… we have already won more than you can see. the fact that you are here on a lesbian blog on Election Night says it all.

  14. Anonymous

    November 4, 2008 at 11:19 pm

    Well yes is winning…so if i tell you guys to suck it….chances are you will.

  15. ~Julie Phineas~

    November 4, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    Maybe I will Vote Yes on 8 so I can be a bachelorette again and subject myself to loneliness and random dating experiences… NOT!

  16. Tucker

    November 4, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    I’m a gay man voting yes on prop 8. I want to be discriminated against. . . It gets me off. Yes on prop 8 means gay men like me will have the greatest anal orgasms. YES ON 8

  17. Sei

    November 4, 2008 at 6:33 am

    Oh, I’m sorry about bringing up Parthanogenisis. I mean, those species seem to be impossible to kill off no matter what gets thrown at them. Heck, in one case, one parthanogenic species was thought to have been wiped out when their natural habitat was obliterated only to find out that they were still surviving.

    THEN add in all the species in which homosexuality exists even though there are members of the opposite sex available. In many cases, those species are life time bonding. Members of those species have been observed mating with members of the opposite sex and then rearing their own children with their same-sex partner (female/female couples) or engaging in baby stealing after the infant is weaned (male/male couples). Scientists have observed several bird speices where male/male couples have helped to fertalize eggs, then run off the female mother and reared the chicks on their own as a couple providing warmth for the eggs and food for the chicks.

    The total is 1500 species in which homosexuality has bene observed by scientists. 500 of those are well documented. If you add in the 300 or so parthanogenic species, of which less than half of those are female only species, that raises the numbers up rather high.

    And, if you have a problem with the notion of homosexual animals, you can talk to my cat some time.

    You are, of course, free to look up and read all about it. I just tend to cover all bases. You know how academes can be. If you don’t mention parthanogenisis, someone will bring it up, if you bring up, someone will kvetch about it.

    And feel free to vote how you feel. However, understand this, it isn’t about tradition, it IS about imposing your religious views on others. YOU do not have to get a same-sex marriage, but you are demanding that WE only be subject to your beliefs.

    SEPERATE BUT EQUAL IS SEPERATE BUT HARDLY EQUAL. We learned that one in the ’50′s, but some people never learn their history.

  18. ~Julie Phineas~

    November 3, 2008 at 11:35 pm

    If anyone reading this message is UNDECIDED please post your questions here! Let both sides answer your questions so you can know the TRUTH when you cast your vote tmw!!

  19. ~Julie Phineas~

    November 3, 2008 at 11:34 pm

    So what it comes down to here is a difference between right and wrong. But let me ask you WHO decides what is right and what is wrong?? Judges do. The judges that granted marriage rights to same-sex couples this year were not gay and they were acting on the side of justice. How come you can’t concede the fact that YOU are the ones that are wrong.

  20. Stirling Gardner

    November 3, 2008 at 11:31 pm

    MY BEST FRIEND’S GAY.

    To all the straight dudes like me out there:

    It’s the day before the election.

    By the end of tomorrow, my best friend will know whether or not he can be legally married in the state of California. And as the polls stand right now, it looks like he won’t be able to do that. And that bums me out, brother.

    If you told me when I was growing up that my best friend would be gay I’d have laughed in your face, maybe even punched you in it. I grew up in a rural area of Maryland filled with mullets, acid wash jeans and the good ole boys that wore them both. Hell, I was one of ‘em… part of me still is. I went to Catholic school, a private university and didn’t know an openly gay person until I moved to Los Angeles.

    I played “smear the queer”, called my friends “faggots” and if someone did something silly or stupid, I’d call him “gay”. I simply had no frame of reference. Perhaps if you are reading this, you don’t either and I can appeal to you in these final hours…

    I know every single one of you (whether you are man enough to admit it or not) hopes to find your perfect partner… dare I say soulmate? Personally, I have visions of finding “love at first sight”, going through the first stages of love where I can’t get enough of this beautiful woman, falling madly in love with her, marrying and living happily ever after where we both die peacefully in our sleep holding hands.

    Guess what? We aren’t the only ones that have those feelings. Gay men and women have the exact same dreams that we do, because that is what PEOPLE do… dream. We dream of what we want to be when we grow up, the kind of house we want to live in, where we are going to vacation and what our perfect relationship looks like. And just like all of us straight guys where we prefer blondes over brunettes over redheads, there are some people that prefer others of the same sex. That’s really all there is to it. Believe it or not, they aren’t doing it to spite you.

    I know that some of you who oppose same sex marriage want to make this into a huge deal where the door will be open for people to marry rabbits and aliens and anything else you can imagine, but the simple fact of the matter is, that argument doesn’t work.

    My gay best friend doesn’t want to marry a rabbit any more than I do. Or an alien for that matter. (Although I would have sex with that hot alien chick on the new Battlestar Gallactica.)

    I am in the entertainment industry and since moving to L.A., I have met hundreds of gay guys and I have to tell you all a secret… “Shhhh… they are people EXACTLY like you and me except they happen to like other dudes.” I know that seems weird to you. It did to me too when I first moved out here, but since then I have observed them and taken notes and this is what I have found:

    OBSERVATION OF THE GAYS:

    1) They have feelings just like you and me. They experience love, hate, jealousy, disappointment and elation.
    2) Some of them actually have more successful relationships than we do. Imagine that. Two people in a relationship that actually works. What would you give for that? I’ve looked up to the sky and offered God ANYTHING for a successful relationship. I’m still waiting and I envy ANYONE that can make that work.
    3) Gays are PEOPLE. They are entitled to the same things all other people are: the right to vote, the right to free speech and should be afforded the right to marry one another. It’s simply a matter of equality.
    4) Gays are generally clean. This has nothing to do with anything, but I wanted to share ALL of the data with you.

    My best friend is an amazing singer and one late night, we were hanging out with a few friends and he sang, “Loch Lomond” (look it up). When he was finished, without even thinking about it, I said, “One day, I want you to sing that at my wedding.” He was honored.

    And then I started thinking about what honor I could bestow upon him to reciprocate. And it hit me that I may never be able to do something like that for him if Prop 8 passes tomorrow.

    I’ve seen him these last two weeks in the throws of a budding relationship and it has been a real education for me. I’m not used to being this tight with a buddy who also happens to be gay and I have to say there are still things that open my eyes.

    He’s in that beautiful, romantic phase of a new relationship where they want to spend every moment together. I’ve never seen him so happy. So inspired. And that makes me happy. Although it is still hard for me to understand how he can be physically attracted to another guy (we’re loud, sweaty and not that smart), what I do understand and appreciate are the feelings. And it is absolutely amazing to witness.

    I hope he falls madly in love with this guy, they move in together and if they so choose, are allowed to marry one another in the eyes of the law and all of their “fabulous” party guests. If that happens, I’m sure I’ll cry. (I’m a sucker for weddings).

    And in the meantime, I’m going to remain positive and think about what I can do for him at his wedding. It’s only fair. As it looks between the two of them now, I better start taking guitar lessons tonight.

    So from one bro to another, I’d like to ask this favor: Please vote No on Prop 8.

    Even if you don’t want to do it for the gay guys because you don’t know them, do it for me… a straight dude.

    Because I really can’t stand having to owe anyone anything!

    Thank you for reading this.

    NO ON 8!

    By: Stirling Gardner
    Me@StirlingGardner.com

  21. p.Johanna

    November 3, 2008 at 10:49 pm

    so anon, teacher of biology, would you state that our “population” will become extinct as the other bio teach has said, or are you still the one and the same?

  22. Anonymous

    November 3, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    I am a woman, a high school biology teacher, highly educated, mother of three children, married for 25 years, a sexual abuse survivor and I am voting yes on prop 8. Those that are as thick as lead are those who selfishly view their choice as a civil right that everyone must accept.
    I actually find the biological comments funny. Do you really think that there is a comparison between the parthenogenetic (asexually reproducing) lizards, fish, amphibians and the much more complex human species? The fertilization process makes a species stronger especially through the genetic diversity found within a population. As much as some might hope that one day we will become asexual, do not hold your breath.

  23. Anonymous

    November 3, 2008 at 8:49 pm

    I have one quick comment…I can’t believe any woman would vote yes on 8 after all that has happened in the past. It wasn’t that long ago that we had no rights. “We’ve come a long way baby” let’s continue to evolve.

  24. Anonymous

    November 3, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    Don’t make the mistake of thinking this is an individual civil rights matter. If this could be done in a vacuum, as the opponents seem to teach, it may seem right to allow it. But this is not the case. It is indisputable because it becomes a violation of separation of church and state. This precident is going to encourage enmity between the private beliefs of all faiths who might oppose immoral behaviors, and have the state condeming them for it. This looks to me like a new persucution on the horizon. Find someone who is building crosses and buy stock in their company. Hell is on the way. Do not believe Feinstein, Frankenstein or anyone else, they want to take command of the young minds and teach them that the behavior is the person and that is not the case. In a freee society we should be able to decide and hold to which behaviors are WRONG, and not have the state decide to the contrary. The exceptions are when evil faiths decide human sacrifice is appropriate, and the like. Mind you the NO people are the real liars here, they want to make the world a better place in their mind by taking away your beliefs. That is not what freedom and separation is built upon. We all descriminate against behaviors – drinking, speeding, etc. We want to keep them in a bubble away from our children. This is much the same, keep your identities and your freedom, but do not ask everyone who may oppose it to validate it for you, that is an abuse of the freedom of others.

  25. ~Julie Phineas~

    November 3, 2008 at 5:01 am

    ATTENTION YES ON PROP 8 BLOGGERS: Gay marriage was legalized in California in June 2008. Since then, churches have not closed down, gay marriage has not been taught in schools, and so far reportedly no one has married their pet.

  26. Jenime

    November 3, 2008 at 1:13 am

    I think its funny that you rail on and on about the United States Constitution and then point to a piece of law philosophy written by a Canadian Lawyer, referencing Canadian law. By the way, her main argument is that procreation is the real defining characteristic of true marriage. Why then don’t we have fertility tests in order to obtain a marriage license? Because that’s ridiculous! When you try to push the ridiculous into law, you are crazy.

    She also goes off on antisemitism in this crap you’ve sourced, for no reason, which really shows me that she put way too much personal opinion into this paper. One of her other popular works is a piece on male circumcision, and she took a lot of (seems to be unfair) heat on that. I don’t agree that she’s antisemitic, but when she lumps homophobia and antisemitism together in any way, it’s creepy. She’s not objective by any means, and I really find a lack of maturity in her logic.

    She also said this on CBC (which reveals a bit):

    “I’ve often thought, you know, I live not in the country of my birth, I’ve got no children or partner, and I don’t have any relatives in Canada — and I’ve lived here for 30 years, and I’m a great believer in destiny, and I sort of think that you’d have to be almost designed in the situation I’m in for someone like me in order to give them the freedom, to do what I can do, is to take that and let that anger and often hatred come out.”

    Whoa, creepy and bitter! Quite a scholar you have there Paul. Lol. I love it when people who don’t have relationships at all tell the rest of us how to do it. CRACKS ME UP. I love her hard hitting conclusion to the argument against same-sex marriage (in Canada)too: “In conclusion, society needs marriage to establish cultural meaning, symbolism and moral values.”

    Wow. Then … what does the fact that more than half of these traditional marriages fail mean? Sorry Paul, it’s hard to be a water carrier for someone who gives you a bucket full of holes.

  27. Paul

    November 2, 2008 at 10:39 pm

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

    I like the 1st Amendment. Every part of it seems to be related to discussion of Proposition 8.

    The 1st amendment guarantees my right to an opinion. The strongest differences of opinion over issues are usually questions of deciding “greater good”.

    I am not lesbian nor gay, but if my opinion affects my neighbor, I should think about it seriously. After much thought, my view is most similar to the one articulated here:

    http://www.marriageinstitute.ca/images/somerville.pdf

    It contains non-religious(not that there’s anything wrong with that) arguments written by Margaret Somerville, an ethicist.

    I will vote Yes on Proposition 8 and if you will read and think about Ms. Somerville’s ideas, maybe you will too.

  28. Sei

    November 2, 2008 at 8:23 am

    A recent independent study in Vermont found that, no, Civil Unions and Domestic Partnerships do not in practice convey all the same rights and privaliges that Marriage does.

    And, NO, marriage has not been between one man and one woman since it was first created millenia upon millenia ago. Some cultures believe in marraige between one man and many women, or one woman and many men, or even between two people of the same sex.

    The one man/one woman definition of marriage is far from universal. In fact, it is among the tiniest of minorities of the definitions of marriage. In fact, not even all Christian sects can agree upon what constitutes marriage, and have defined it in various ways in the last two thousand years including to allow individuals of the same sex to get married.

  29. Anonymous

    November 2, 2008 at 8:01 am

    You will still have all the same rights that you have now even if Prop 8 passes. Marriage from the beginning was defined between a man and a woman. I don’t care if you want to be gay, but I don’t want the institution of marriage, which I hold dear, changed.

  30. Sei

    November 2, 2008 at 7:39 am

    I don’t normally do this, but I swear, we’ve found something denser than lead. The skulls of those who oppose same-sex marriage

    Guess what guys, those studies showing how children thrive best in “ideal” families, ie opposite sex marriages, ARE LIES! Yes, your vaulted and revered preachers have committed one of the ten great sins in order to get you to belive a lie.

    Every single scientific and unbiased study out there of same-sex v. opposite-sex marriage have found the same things. This includes ones from groups seeking to undermine same-sex marriage. Children need a loving, happy, healthy environment in which to thrive, but they do not need one mommy and one daddy. That’s right. Even the studies that these LIARS and SINNERS pass off as showing how a child needs two opposite sex parents are being misrepresented by those self same LIARS and SINNERS. Children thrive best when they have two parents and it does not matter if they are opposite sex or same sex. So long as their child is loved, then that child will thrive and be healthy.

    Try actually reading up on the studies these LIARS, sorry, Conservative pastors and politicians trot out rather than constantly parroting them.

    Our group here that opposes same-sex marriage decided to do a counter the findings of the Legislature fell apart soon after they began actually reading up on the subject rather than parroting the lies about how it harms children.

    And, btw, the word marriage has changed so much over the last millenia that you might as well give up on THAT argument.

  31. Anonymous

    November 2, 2008 at 12:47 am

    Where is this whole Religious freedom crap coming from? Why all of a sudden would anti-gay faiths be “forced” to marry gays?

    Such statements fly in the face of common sense. Religions, as is their right, discriminate against people EVERY DAY, in marriage and other things.

    Can a male and female Jewish couple “force” the local Catholic church to marry them? Of course not, since one of the Catholic churches rules for a Catholic church wedding is that at least ONE of the parties involed be Catholic.

    Where are all the lawsuits forcing the Catholic church to marry Jews, Buddhists, Protestants etc. There aren’t any, because under the separation of church and state, these groups have no legal standing to demand that ANY church do ANYTHING that goes against the teaching of that church!

    Even two Catholics who attend that church have no legal standing to sue the church if the church refuses to marry them say…on a beach. I say this because I know two young Catholics who were recently married on a beach. Growing up and watching t.v. they thought they could get married anywhere. The Catholic church told them that Catholic law mandates the wedding MUST take place in a Catholic church. They didn’t sue and they had nothing to sue for had they wanted to. They just chose to have the wedding they wanted to, on a beach, with a non-denominational pastor.

    Churches of ALL stripes have always been free, under the separation of church and state, to set THEIR OWN rules regarding who they will marry and how they will do it. The gay issue isn’t somehow exceptional. To say that the church will be FORCED to marry gays is to say that ANY church will be “forced” to marry any non-members, those who practice a different faith, those who don’t claim an intent to uphold the teachings of that faith and on and on.

    What’s troubling is that the religious groups are well aware of this, and yet they are still appealing to peoples tribal fears and legal ignorance by pushing the idea that gay marriage being legal somehow equals ALL CHURCHES being forced by the state to solemnize gay unions!

    The last time I checked, marriage between two heterosexual Jews, Buddhists, Atheists etc. was LEGAL and at the very same time, the Catholic church has NEVER been and CAN’T BE “FORCED” to marry these couples!

    Please religious folk. If you are against marriage equality, then that’s one thing. However, lying to the public to get an end that you desire is anything but moral, holy or righteous.

    This “forcing us to marry them” argument is patently absurd and you know it!

    Furthermore, is it just me or does anyone else see the folly in putting the “rights” of ANY minority up to a popular vote? Such a thing wouldn’t even be considered in many civilized societies.

    A right is a right, not a token to be granted or taken away by a majority at it’s whim.

    As a person who grew up in the deep south and still lives there, I can guarantee you this. Had we put the issue of segregation “up to the voters” we’d STILL HAVE IT!… The same goes for interracial marriage.

    Darn those terrible, “activists” judges taking away the majorities “right” to be haters, huh? No, you can ALL still be haters as much as you want. All the courts are saying is that “the state” must be neutral towards different groups of people. The state also has an interest in protecting ANY minority group from unwarranted discrimination. Just because “the state” no longer sees fit to put the stamp of approval on any form of institutionalized discrimination, that doesn’t mean that people have somehow lost their right to hate those groups.

    Gays pay taxes like everyone else, therefore they are entitled to the same rights as every other citizen, and YES, the right to marry has already been determined to be a basic human right. Just look at what the SCOTUS said when it overturned many states interracial marriage bans.

  32. Anonymous

    November 2, 2008 at 12:18 am

    It seems that those who claim that their rights are being denied are happy to deny those same rights to those who oppose same sex marraige.
    Tolerance only goes one way for you. Your rights, your rights, what happens to the freedom of religion rights guaranteed by the Constitution? You already can live together, do whatever you want together, but if we allow 4 judges to deny the voice of the majority of Californians we will take away their religious liberty. This is tyranny of the minority. Churches should have a say if they do not want to allow same sex couples to ADOPT children thru their Adoption services. Churches should NOT be FORCED to perform homosexual marraiges if their own beliefs are opposed to it. Parents should be able to be the stewards of their children, not the state. The parents should decide what to teach their own children about sex and marraige. If you allow gay marraige, you attack the rights of those who believe that such behavior is immorral and wrong.

    The State Government would be making a moral law and saying it is “legal”, and “proper” to be gay be in a gay marraige. This would deny the very FREEDOM OF RELIGION guarnteed in the Constitution. Gay people you can already be domestic partners in California with all of the same rights and protections as hetrosexuals. Noone is denying your rights, however, if we allow 4 California Supreame Court Justices to legislate from the bench and to overturn the voice of the people of California, then you are taking away the rights of the majority. In this democracy the people of California already spoke. I believe in families. No gay couple ever had their own child. They CANNOT make children. The natural way, the correct way is for marraige to be between a male and female. No matter what you say about fairness, the creator did not give 2 women or 2 men as a couple the power make children. Children can only come from a man and woman and children deserve both a Mother and a Father.
    Yes on 8!

  33. Anonymous

    November 1, 2008 at 11:44 pm

    In a nutshell, the California Supreme Court decided on May 15, 2008 that same-sex marriage must be legal because anything else would be a denial of equal protection under the law.

    I like the word equal? As kids we are taught that equal is good – equal portions of deserts, equal time sharing a favorite toy with friends, just to name a few. Surely, as adults we naturally want equal rights.

    So, what are equal rights with respect to marriage? I did some research. What I learned surprised me. I guess it shows that I never really thought much about marriage before this Prop 8 stuff hit.

    In fact, there are quite a few requirements for marriage. Each state confers the right for any non-married adult to marry any other consenting, unmarried, unrelated, adult of the opposite sex (at least in 48/50 states). Gay and lesbian people are free to marry as long as they meet those requirements. Those aren’t my words. That is what New York’s highest court decided in 2006 when they ruled against same-sex marriage (1).

    Gay and lesbian people are not without an equal option to marriage in California – civil unions. According to California Law civil unions provide all the rights and privileges California can offer to married people (Family Code §297.5) – if Prop 8 passes or fails that fact will not change.

    Prop 8 is about the word marriage – which symbolizes the central element of society – the family. The ideal family is one where a father and mother rear and nurture children in love. Many studies show that the children develop best in ideal families. As a society we should encourage that ideal.

    Please join me and vote yes on Prop 8 and restore marriage as it has been defined for nearly all of human history – between one man and one woman.

  34. ssharp35

    November 1, 2008 at 9:23 pm

    Vote yes on Prop 8. Here’s why:

    1. This country is a democracy, which means the voice of the majority dictates what is approved as law and policy. 62% of Californians have already spoken and said YES in 2001. Judges are installed to interpret laws not make them. (If you follow the polls, the majority of San Diegans support Prop 8 by a significant margin.

    2. Same gender couples already have rights within civil unions in this state, so Prop 8 will not take any rights away from them. Here’s how the law reads: Domestic Partnership community property rights, dependent health care benefits, rights to make health care decisions, tort rights, or rights to adopt partner’s child [Cal. Fam. Code §297.5(d)].

    The law (Cal. Fam. Code §297.5 (a)) reads as follows: “Registered domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses.”

    3. Public education policies will change. Schools will be required to teach that marriage is between any two people. Parents will no longer be mom and dad, but parent A and parent B. (Recently a 1st grade class in San Francisco went on a field trip to see a lesbian wedding, so it’s already happening). I’ve never heard of any school taking a field trip to a heterosexual wedding. Is a same-gender marriage natural? Can they have children on their own?

    4. Clergy will be sued for refusing to perform same gender weddings even though it is against their religious doctrine, and risk tax-exempt status. (This is already happening).

    5. Religious freedom, the whole reason that people left Europe, to escape state dictated religion and came here, was to establish a country that would protect religious freedom, yet it will now be in jeopardy. In Massachusetts, where same gender marriage is legal, Catholic Charities was forced by law to place adoptive children in same gender families, which is against Catholic doctrine. Rather than do so, Catholic Charities no longer operates in Massachusetts. Whether you agree with the Catholic Church or not is not the issue. The issue is that the government is mandating against their religious beliefs and doctrine. In New Mexico, a photographer decline to photograph a same gender wedding and was sued for $6,000. The photographer is appealing. In Vista, CA a gynecologist refused to give a lesbian patient in vitro fertilization, though the doctor referred the patient to an associate, he was still sued. The court found that the woman’s right to medical treatment trumps the doctor’s religious beliefs.

    6. Marriage was established in order to create families. The only union where this can happen is between a man and a woman. Even those who have chosen an alternate sexual preference were brought into the world by heterosexuals. In fact, the main reason for having sexual relations is to have children, the fact that it is pleasurable is a side benefit and is such as to give humans a desire to procreate.

    7. To stop the free fall of society into gender-less society. The roles of men and women are being blurred more and more. In Denver there is an initiative before the state legislation that will make it illegal to discriminate based on sex in any public facility, including restrooms, showers, schools etc. which means a man cannot be refused entrance to a restroom designated as a women’s facility and vice versa. They will all become one happy facility. Gender-less.

    Prop 8 is not anti-gay as the opponents would suggest. It is simply protecting that which has been established for centuries. Traditional marriage. The family (a father, a mother and children) is the basic unit of society and as it is compromised, so is society as a whole as seen from past history.

  35. ~Julie Phineas~

    November 1, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    This is a very valid yet dangerous opinion.

    Can you imagine all the comments that will start debating creation vs. evolution?

    This is not the point.

    Regardless of whether creation brought us to where we are or evolution, we still have as of yet to see a Yes on Prop 8 backer to give a valid point on equal rights why they think it’s OK to take away human rights??

  36. HeidiTri's

    October 29, 2008 at 7:26 am

    To the argument that children deserve to be raised by a mother and a father:
    1. There is no evidence that a mother/father team do a better job than a single parent or a same sex couple.

    2. Same sex couples who chose to have a child have my greatest respect. There is no “accidental” or unplanned pregnancy. I assume that there is an incredible level of commitment between 2 people who have to take so many deliberate and invasive steps to have a child.

    3. Parenting and the right to be married are actually two seperate issues. It is unfair to hide behind the pretense of “wanting what’s best for children” as a way to spread hate and discrimination.

  37. Sei

    October 29, 2008 at 5:46 am

    To the Anonymous Biology Teacher,

    I might remind you of the notion of parthenogenesis. While that is limited to many species of reptiles, fish, and insects, the notion is rather important to point out.

    However, aside from the female only species, there are fifteen hundred species in which homosexual behavior is documented. Of those, five hundred are well documented. I might add that that subpopulation of homosexuals within the larger population of the species do reproduce and raise their young, as a whole. So, no, they have not and still do not remove themselves from the population’s genetic structure as a whole.

    The next thing is much more simple. Technically, under US law, one person does make a church. However, the Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Christian Churches, a fairly substantial Christian denomination, endorses and supports same-sex marriage. As do the Unitarians and the Unity Churches (different denominations).

    Right now, there is a movement in Shinto to accept homosexuality and same-sex marriage, but that is also complicated by a variety of factions within Japanese society.

    Many forms of Buddhism, Voodoo, and several other religions allow for homosexuality, and some allow for same-sex marriage.

    By that definition, any attempt to restrict marriage as being between one man and one woman is a violation of my first Amendment rights. It does not matter what religion I belong to so long as that religion has enough followers to qualify as a religion.

    BTW, Wicca IS a religion, as are the Neo and Trandtionalist Pagans. At least according to the United States Military.

  38. ~Julie Phineas~

    October 28, 2008 at 10:40 pm

    Anon”Yeah, believe it or not, Prop 8 is out to help you guys. You may not understand now, but we want whats best for you.”

    Anon… you really want to do what’s best for us? Pay our taxes, keep a roof over our children’s head, keep food in our families mouth. THAT would be helping! Hindering my family from the protections of marriage does NOT.

  39. ~Julie Phineas~

    October 28, 2008 at 10:37 pm

    nrl4prop8
    Voting Yes on Prop 8 isn’t going to eliminate gay families, just discriminate against them.

  40. ~Julie Phineas~

    October 28, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    yourfuturehome1…
    same sex couples in Domestic Partnership do NOT enjoy ALL rights of marriage – for one we can’t file taxes together on the federal level and receive same tax breaks as a straight married couple.

    marriage has nothing to do with reproduction… what about straight couples who can’t have kids? Plus gay people can have kids just fine, we just have to work harder at it.

    marriage is not simply a religious rite. it is a human right, a civil right, that many religions happen to practice; but you don’t have to be a religious person to enjoy the rights and responsibilities of the institution of marriage. religious freedom is all good, but has nothing to do with Prop 8.

  41. Anonymous

    October 28, 2008 at 10:24 pm

    I am sick and tired of “yes on 8″ supporters saying things like about gay marriage being like “incestuous marriage”,” “polygamy,” and “pedophilia.” For the record, the people in this country who have either participated in, or rallied for “incestuous marriage” have identified as “heterosexual”! The same goes for those who practice, or wish to legalize “polygamy”! It should also be stated that almost EVERY study done EVERYWHERE in the United States for the last 20 plus years of CONVICTED CHILD MOLESTERS, or those who practice “pedophilia”, over 70 percent have identified as “heterosexual” males!
    “Protect Marriage” is ridiculous! Are you “protecting” the “traditional marriage” which statistically speaking, ends in DIVORCE within the first THREE YEARS?
    So in essence, “yes on 8″ supporters want to retain the right to file frivolous marriages with the state of California to “only between a man and a woman”?
    And for the record: there is NO “homosexual agenda”! Gay people have no desire to convert heterosexuals to homosexuality! Is there a “heterosexual agenda”? It appears so. Do the research! Heterosexuals are the ones attempting to get gay people to “convert” to their “lifestyle choice”, not the homosexuals attempting to get the heterosexuals to convert to homosexuality!
    Furthermore, the ignorant statements about homosexuality being a “lifestyle choice” and “their choice to be gay” and simply stupid! When did the heterosexuals wake up and make a decision to be “heterosexual” Who here honestly actually said to them “should I be straight or gay”? If homosexuality is a choice, then by logical deduction, so is heterosexuality.
    So are the “no on 8″ supporters attempting to force California to be a “heterosexual” state? It appears so!
    Why do the heterosexual people constantly attempt to force their lifestyle choices on the gay people? If it is a proven fact (check with the medical, psychological and law enforcement communities) that the majority of child molesters are “heterosexual” why do people feel comfortable leaving their children alone with people who have such a high probability of being a child predator? If the divorce rate (check the statistics in ANY family law court) is so high, why on earth would people want to not only defend this practice, but teach their children it is “moral” to grow up, file multiple “marriages” and then file multiple “divorces”? How is that moral?
    Get over it people! Your fear of gay people is totally unwarranted! It is the gay people (who have been historically bashed, beaten up, threatened, slandered, torted, mutilated, maimed, killed, shamed, and discriminated against who should be afraid! The heterosexuals have the proven history of doing these shameful things against homosexuals for years! Not the homosexuals doing it to the heterosexuals! (Reference the holocaust, “witch burning”, stonewall, Matthew Sheppard, and countless other historical “hate crimes”!
    Maybe, just maybe, we are sick and tired of it all, much like the other minorities finally got sick of it all, like the black people, Japanese, Jewish, etc.!
    Hatred and discrimination is a terrible thing to “teach your children”!
    P.S. Those of you who are inevitably going to discount and disregard what I have said might want to research the points I have brought up. And if you want to comment back, fine as long as it is intelligent and not “gay bashing” because that would do nothing more than prove the points I have brought up!
    Proposition 8 was written specifically propagate further discrimination against specifically gay folks based solely on their sexual orientation! Discrimination is against the US Constitution as well as separation of church and state! Please stop using the name of “GOD” and “JESUS” to bash people because they are different. NOWHERE in the bible does it say to treat your neighbor with such prejudice! In fact, it is a COMMANDMENT to “love thy neighbor”.
    Hate is NOT a HEALTHY value to be teaching children! Didn’t we learn from the mistakes of Hitler?
    NO ON PROP 8!!!!!!!!!!

  42. p.Johanna

    October 28, 2008 at 9:37 pm

    “A population which chooses to remove itself from the genetic gene pool due to their sexual preference is, without any outside assistance, on the track of extinction.” a teacher and you post that? again, biology teacher, where do people come from? where have gay people come from? i find it sad that you as a biology teacher still wrote that.

    No one is asking your church to marry us. that is the misconception, this is about civil rights. it has nothing to do with your belief or your church or your God. nothing.

  43. Anonymous

    October 28, 2008 at 9:13 pm

    Sorry, I did not clarify. I am a biology teacher, we refer to all organisms of the same species as populations. There is nothing wrong with that term as it is a valid biological label especially in context of a biological discussion in which it was used. A population which chooses to remove itself from the genetic gene pool due to their sexual preference is, without any outside assistance, on the track of extinction. There is no malice or hate in my blogs, maybe you should take a class or two on human biology and you will understand what “population” means.

    On the lawsuits, one person does not make a church. If the churches moral code is that same sex marriage is an abomination as the King James Bible states, then that church should not be forced to marry a same sex couple. Churches have the right to judge, you say discriminate, individuals who do not live in accordance with the principles of their chosen religion. I find it very sad that a population would use threats of bigotry, hate and criminal acts to try and intimidate others from their religious freedoms. If the no on 8 populations are so right why do they have to stoop so low?

  44. nrl4prop8

    October 28, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    I am a supporting of Proposition 8. However, I don’t support pulling kids out of school as a protest. They do need their education and the schools need the money.

    On the other hand I don’t believe the Superintendent of schools and the CTA should be involved in this issue. They should focus more on problems within the schools.

    I support Prop 8 because I think children should have the right to grow up in a traditional marriage where both a father and mother rear the children in love.

    Thanks – NRL4PROP8.WORDPRESS.COM

  45. Sei

    October 28, 2008 at 6:56 am

    Anonymous Post #64,

    You know, it’s sad to hear someone say ‘your population’. Which population is that, the population of every non-Fundamentalist in this country? Believe it or not, but many Christians do not agree with you, and openly welcome same-sex couples and support same-sex marriage.

    But then, those are YOUR Christians. There must be something wrong with them since they interpret the Bible differently from you. Of course, there’s about nineteen hundred and seventy seven years worth of total, all out disagreement within the Christian Churches as to, well, just about everything.

    And if you can’t cite a specific law suit where a given Church was forced to accept same-sex marriage, then your point is invalid. Yes, there were lawsuits which forced Vermont, Massechucetts, and Conneticut to legally accept same-sex marriages, but there were provisions written into the eventual laws which exempted people from either issuing the paperwork or performing the ceremonies so long as at least one person was available at the local who could take care of them. That does not sound like forcing a specific person into doing something they are uncomfortable with.

    You see, your point is invalid because the laws that do exist were written in such a manner as to allow for people like you to exempt yourself out of having to perform a duty you find morally wrong.

    You are projecting upon us your own behavior. You are forcing gays and lesbians into following what you feel is moral, but not even every Christian can agree upon as being moral. While every religion, Abrahamic and not, can agree upon things like murder and stealing as being wrong, they cannot agree upon homosexuality as being wrong.

    You, sir/madam, are forcing upon us YOUR lifestyle. We do not demand that you engage in or even condone homosexuality, but you sir are demanding that we follow YOUR moral code.

    But I doubt that you’ll listen to any of those arguments.

  46. Anonymous

    October 28, 2008 at 6:39 am

    Biological facts are what they are, sighting one example where ape populations have closer bonds with the same sex does not change that. As for religious freedom, look at what is happening back east with churches being sued by your population. Unfortunately, some individuals always seem to push the limits when it comes to their philosophy forcing others to draw the line. If your population would not try and force their lifestyle into other religious beliefs who morally oppose them, we would not be having this discussion.

  47. Sei

    October 28, 2008 at 5:16 am

    Yourfuturehome1,

    First of all, a recent study here in Vermont found that things like Domstic Partnerships and Civil Unions were indeed seperate, but hardly anywhere near equal.

    Second thing, did they teach you about the Mbobo Apes of Africa? Probably not. Mbobo’s are the most highly documented species when it comes to non-Human homosexual behaviors. Inside Mbobo tribes, there are male/female, male/male and female/female committed couples. These are often life time parings. However, here’s the thing, durring mating season, members of the female/female couples will go off and mate with males, usually unattatched males, or males from male/male couples. At all other times, these apes are exclusive to their same-sex partner. The female/female couples raised the child as their own exclusively, as well as raised any orphans. In Mbobo ‘society’, it should be noted, females did the primary raising of children anyway.

    Any organism with a functioning brain can figure out how to mate and still be homosexual. I had a female cat who was exclusive to her female partner except for when she was in heat. In fact, even while in heat, she was often seen ‘mating’ with her female partner, but would take a male partner long enough to get pregnant.

    Just because we can’t have children with our partners does not mean that we can’t have children. It’s not like we’re born without genitalia or brains.

    The last point is this. What Proposition 8 does is restrict MY religious freedom. GASP! Yes, I belong to a religion which does not see marriage as being between a man and a woman exclusively, but as being between two individuals. Your statement about how it protects others from having their religious freedoms curtailed is absurd.

  48. p.Johanna

    October 27, 2008 at 11:00 pm

    to future seeker of knowledge up above: 1 domestic partnership does not grant federal rights as marriage does, and where do u get ur stats from? 2. we have existed since biblical times and continue to exist and that is because heterosexuals contain the gay gene, research where children come from 3 if marriage was so strongly related to you religious folks then divorce should not be allowed. it’s a joke when you proponents of this proposition resort to religion when ur actions are far from Christ like.

  49. yourfuturehome1

    October 27, 2008 at 10:28 pm

    Wow such passion and misinformation. First, under the laws which govern the registered domestic partnerships, same sex couples can enjoy all of the legal rights that are guaranteed to couples who must by law register for their marriage license. The problem is only 5% of the same sex couples have filed for this protection. If they feel so passionate, why do they not take the steps necessary to ensure their rights are protected? Second, having just finished our unit on ecology, which covers such things as populations and genetic diversity, organisms which do not reproduce face extinction. By their choice to remove themselves from the natural order of all living things, does set the same sex couple apart. Third, since marriage is a title which is connected directly with religious commitment, marriage should be the label connected with that commitment. Couples who seek to not have a religious marriage and are “married” by a civic employee such as a city mayor, have selected to have a civil union/domestic partnership. The same sex community can have any kind of “party” celebrating their relationship, no one is stopping them. The support of prop 8 protects those who choose to practice their religion from same sex couples who will seek to be married religiously even though that life style goes against the religions moral code. Is that discriminating? No, that is religious freedom.