The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force needs to grow a spine…
The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, one of the nation’s largest gay civil rights groups, has turned jellyfish and signed onto the “Prepare to Prevail” (P2P) statement in California that is urging the LGBT community in California not to go back to the ballot next year to repeal that state’s same-sex marriage ban.
In a statement released today Rea Carey, Executive Director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force said, “As a state that has often served as a political and cultural trendsetter for the rest of the country, what happens in California has national significance for the LGBT movement. That’s why for well over five years the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force has devoted significant human and financial resources to winning the freedom to marry in California. This commitment remains steadfast as we continue to work on the ground in California with the Vote for Equality Project of the L.A. Gay & Lesbian Center and Equality California to build effective models of person-to-person voter persuasion about marriage equality.”
“We support the soonest possible return to the ballot box to repeal Prop. 8 that gives the LGBT community a fighting chance to win. The priorities expressed in ‘Prepare to Prevail’ are about the hard work it will take at the grassroots to move towards a solid victory, and we look forward to continued work with our partners in California to build a strong, diverse and successful campaign for marriage equality.”
The task force, which last year donated $283,000 to oppose Proposition 8, joins a growing number of other spineless gay rights organizations expressing reservations about rushing to overturn the measure.
Earlier this week, several groups representing black, Asian and Hispanic gays in California said they do not believe voter opinion has shifted enough to justify another costly campaign.
Nevertheless, other California activists who do possess a backbone, disagree and are eager to try repealing the ban as soon as possible… they have already started raising money and training volunteers for a 2010 vote.
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Get back to us when their little row boat falls apart and they start drowning. Maybe we’ll save them so they can vote in ‘11 or ‘12.
Do I hear another jellyfish speaking?
I live in California and am volunteering on the ground. This is unfair to all the people in CA who are trying to do the work that we need to do but the latest polling data from PollForEquality shows us that Latinos, Blacks and Asians have the most education in terms of learning about homosexuality as being something innate versus chosen and the number of people who are not strongly opposed or for gay marriage. Is it fair to leave behind People Of Color, in terms of educating them and persuading them to be pro-homosexual and marriage equality like the Prop 8 campaign did when it consciously made a decision to focus on the mainstream? When we lost last year, the groups at the top made a commitment to look at what we did wrong and try to correct those mistakes. One of those mistakes was to focus on the mainstream instead of focusing on everyone. Isn’t working on equality for all what it’s about and not just equality for the mainstream? If the major groups forge ahead, will they leave People Of Color behind?
I understand why people from out of state want the people in CA to be a leader in marriage equality because it means hope for them but that’s why groups like NOM spend so much money donating to our state when they don’t even live here. I can promise you, NOM is going to outspend us like they did on Prop 8 if we go for 2010 and without getting everyone in the state on board with marriage equality, whoever has the most money is going to win. Guess who that’s going to be?
you know Alan I live in DC… and I have Marriage Equality… if you don’t want it out there is Cali… so be it… but if you… do you need to get busy and get this on the ballot as soon as you can…
But writing two paragraphs of why you can’t do this won’t get you there….
Alan,
Please read the comments from Ms Maggie Gallagher on We Shall Fight Them In . . . 2012? That Good For You? They raised $3.6 million in the last five months. This is opposed to the groups on our side that have FIFTY MILLION, more than ten times what they have, right now.
Alan,
To add to what I wrote earlier. The unfortunately part of a lot of these groups that want to hang back is that they do not want to push even the educational aspects of this. What is more, according to the Prop 8 exit polling as broken down by Nate Silver, the only group to vote heavily in favor of Prop 8 was blacks. Latinos and Asians voted more in line with Whites. As to why Cali is important to those of us outside of that state, please read what I wrote further down.
Paula: That’s not fair! We both want marriage equality. Unfortunately, we disagree on how we should fight. You want to put a ballot measure on the ballot as if something magically happened to sway the millions of yes on prop 8 voters in Los Angeles County alone. Change doesn’t happen because you will it to. Any politician knows you have to get out there and start talking to people to change hearts and minds. You need to educate.
Sei: 1) Where can I find Ms Maggie Galagher’s article? I looked here
http://townhall.com/columnists/MaggieGallagher/2009
and I didn’t see such an article listed.
2) Where are you getting your numbers from? Off the bat, I can tell you that your comparison is false. Comparing what the opposition raised in a few months to what the largest estimate of what EQCA may have in their war chest is not the same. Just because an organization has a certain amount of money available doesn’t mean they’re going to spend it all at once. I don’t know the exact number but I can tell you that NOM has a lot more than $3.6 million dollars in its war chest. I would like to see you come back and compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. You don’t have to trust me on this. Look at what they’re doing in Maine as their November referendum gets close. The religious folks are much more organized and are outfundraising us by almost three times.
http://kennebecjournal.mainetoday.com/news/local/6612007.html
3) Your information is misinformed. Vote for Equality has been doing the groundwork of going door-to-door to talk to voters since February of this year and we’ve had groups including National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, EQCA, Jordan Rustin Coalition, Equal Roots, White Knot, Young Stonewall Democrats and people belonging to many other groups join us at our canvasses. We’ve been sharing our materials with groups within the state like Courage Campaign for them to do their own canvassing as well as groups in other states, like EqualityMaine, those in Portland, Oregon and many more.
4) I found Nate Silver’s article here that talks about exit polling from Prop 8 but unfortunately, doesn’t name the source.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/05/hispanics-back-gay-marriage-at-same.html
I was able to find another article of his that references a CBS news poll in the last paragraph regarding gay marriage.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/04/gay-marriage-by-numbers.html
It is well known among those working on the issue in California that the CBS data was debunked for a small sample size and there have been many surveys since that show more accurate numbers that don’t paint the black community in such a negative light:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/ten-reasons-why-you-should-ignore-exit.html
If you are in California, I encourage you to attend any of the Get Engaged Tour events to view the most recent polling data:
http://equalityevents.ning.com/
Part of the decision making that was done with the “Prepare to Prevail” statement was the recent polling data from PollForEquality for POC groups. I also invite you to come to California and join me at any of Vote for Equality’s door-to-door canvasses.
I also encourage all of LGR staff in California to come see the presentation and polling data at one of the tour events across California, join Vote for Equality at a canvass if they happen to be in Los Angeles and tell me that they still strongly support putting our effort into a ballot initiative instead of persuading voters. The other side has seen how effective going to voters directly is and as of yesterday, Protect Marriage, has decided to combat that effort by going into the exact same areas that Vote for Equality has been going into since February and doing the same thing they did during Prop 8 of spread lies about same-sex marriage.
Unfortunately, it’s still not enough. Read Ron Buckmire of the Jordan Rustin Coalition’s statement about how much work we have ahead of us in LA county alone.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-prop8-2009jul14,0,7577908.story
Granted, there are millions of voters who voted yes on Prop 8 in LA county but 300,000 is the minimum number of voters we need to sway in order win if they other side hasn’t swayed any of our voters based on Prop 8 voting numbers. If you know of a way to move hundreds of thousands of voters who are currently against marriage equality to be for it before November 2010, feel free to let me as well as any of the many, many groups statewide down to local community groups know because I’ll be sure to pass it along.
This comment is hilarious to me:
http://www.bilerico.com/2009/07/back_to_the_california_voters_in_2010.php#comment-189134
“flying unicorns farting out hundreds?”
Hey. Why did my dissenting comment to your article get deleted?
We have a spam filter on the site… it takes it a bit to catch up…. sorry
Oh, wait, nevermind. Akamai is still caching up.
Alan,
It was not deleted. We have to approve all comments in order to prevent abuse. Most comments get through, but they usually do not until morning.
I find it odd that Paula is claiming that D.C. has marriage equality when all they do is recognize marriage preformed else where, they do not marry them there. And even that recognition has been for all of two weeks. If people in California feel they need more time to educate others, than that should be their decision. They live there and know best what’s going on there. The should not be lectured to by people who do not even know what their own district does and does not do.
I am very aware of what is going on in my District….
All it takes is for me to go to Vermont and it is legal here…. the same can not be said by people in California….
And we have several members of our LGR editorial staff who live in California… and they think the time to fight is NOW.
As one of those CA writers, I agree with Bobby.
And I find this post stokes the race divisions further, which prevents us from moving forward. I don’t know why you would just spout off against gay minority organizations, claim what they’re saying, and not name or quote them.
And Alan’s right that this is insulting to us in California. Ever stop to think that even though we lost that one battle, we still made huge gains because of California’s fight? Maybe that DC measure recognizing states that do have marriage equality wouldn’t have happened.
And calling people who don’t agree with you spineless is right out of Karl Rove’s text book. That’s nothing to be proud of. So what is this? Are the people who don’t agree with you “cut and run” gays? Lol! What a joke!
Why don’t you let people think for themselves, and leave the name calling back in high school?
I was not speaking for you Jen… but I can assure you that we have far more of our writer in California who think we have the momentum and that NOW is the time to move….
No one is stoking any race divisions here Jen… This article is about a national organization looking for reasons to not engage and these race divisions you speak of are being used as the excuse for non action by many in your state…. and if the other groups believe serious divisions exist then they should be out NOW working on them…. it is their Marriage Equality we are talking about here too.
These are the “leaders” who lost on Prop8 in the first place…. We here in DC, NH, VT, and Maine watched and we see where they went wrong… and we did just the opposite.
You want to know why what goes on in California is important here in, say, New England? Do you know how many times I had to hear about how Vermont shouldn’t pass marriage equality because of California? Do you know why people here pushed to go after a state vote here in Vermont? Because doing so in California meant that they hoped they could take away our rights. What about Maine? They are going to go through a horrible battle simply because Prop 8 passed.
You may not like it, but what happened there hurt the rest of us. Saying ‘leave Cali alone’ isn’t going to work unless people stop using Cali to attack us in the rest of the country.
Tom I love your position … we write propaganda when we tell you of the ineffective old guard to get out of the closet, get it it together. finally do your own fighting and stopped letting other do your thinking and fighting for you…
But when we do effectively fight for you… you get mad.
It was us and blogs like us that stirred up the Community and finally got Obama to start moving…. it was blogs like ours that turned out on the crowd on Nov 15th 08 and it will be blogs like ours that will be instrumental in finally getting the equality we are all looking for…
It was Organizations like the Task Force… those who make big money being ineffective… who ran the campaign that have made this discussion necessary… they are looking for job security… not equality
What we are doing is reporting the truth about groups like the task force… I can’t help it you dont like that truth
ROFLMFAO
Honey as someone who raised well over $5,000,000 for AIDS services and prevention for my community, I was Out and working for the cause long before you even discovered there was one and you very well know it. You were too busy and self centered with your little “adventures” to even acknowledge it’s existence until a very, very short time ago. And believe me I certainly didn’t use my activist role to boost my ego and sense of self importance. See above for a fine example of same where you probably sprained your arm patting yourself on the back so hard. What a twisted ego.
As to truth, you wouldn’t know it if it came and bit you on your butt. You may have YOUR truth but that doesn’t make it THE truth.
Get back to us when you have some real impact.
Its to late now you have to get this on the ballot, if not for you in California for the nation. Political expediency is a moot point, you can outspend them. Think about it, home values are down, church dues are probably down (my gut tells me), Here in TX a survey of some new Mexican migrants showed they favor same sex marriage, almost by 60%. I can help with creating Spanish language fliers for anyone whose interested. Don’t beat them beat their strategy.
Why do you feel the need to call your readers names. Are you really that weak and ignorant of a person? And most certainly one of the least professional around.
It would surely seem so.
Because, Tom, you’re not a reader. You’re here to attack without merit and complain. But, what ever floats your boat.
Oh, and Tom, you obviously do not really pay attention to the media very much. I mean, come on now, please actually watch some of the stuff that goes down on FOX, CNN, MSNBC. I mean, certainly you have noticed the rabid talking over and borderline insults that fly on most programs. If you want to complain about professionalism, please write to those groups.
Where’s the names and quotes then?
Here’s one-
http://gaysocialites.com/2009/07/national_gay_lesbian_task_forc.html
I was talking about the minority groups she said were saying things that she didn’t name, link to, or quote.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=14&entry_id=43580
There you go.
So you act like Karl Rove in drag? Where’s it get you?
Seems you’re spending more time countering arguments against your work than you are doing it. And I’m most certainly not alone in countering your propaganda.
Tom,
Just remember this. The reason why you are on this blog making these comments is because the guys over at Topix slammed you pretty hard last night over your stance.
WTF are you talking about. I commented on your position on this piece here where it belongs as I have done others. If you’d like I could take it to Topix as well. With their greater readership I’m certain you’d get even more naysayers there than here.
Actually not ONE person called anyone else a name or put down any individual for their opinion on Topix. They didn’t attack me or anyone else for their opinion. Unlike here where you two somehow feel it’s a team contact sport.
I’d suggest you two look long and hard into the mirror before deciding why anyone would come here to make a comment. The rate you’re going it could be zilch soon enough. At least that’s the word I’m getting privately from some folks.
I find it hard to believe you are getting anything “privately from some folks”… I think it was you who said…if you can’t stand the heat…don’t go into the kitchen…
again Tom you have come on this site looking to provoke a fight over old grievances… because it was me who did not agree with you about an opinion article… it was you who started the attacks in November… you have falsely accused this site of plagiarism, you have threatened us and you have tried to find fault with everything published here because I would not be bullied by you … it is you who has the problem… Go get a life dude… you are embarrassing yourself
TomInElPaso,
I would like to point out Daniel From Long Island. People insult and dismiss him all the time, and you’re telling me that no one over there puts people down for their opinion?! Or for that matter Right Wing Proxy, or how ever he spells his name. He puts people down for their opinion all the time. I am baffled by what your point is, Tom.
Tom, here are some comments from today This is from Tony C- “this is just another self-serving “I wish I could be a real reporter” blog that doesn’t even belong here AND is totally off topic.” Deeter1030- “daniel is not even gay…on every post in every forum he has done nothing but denounce all things gays or gay friendly…
he is a poser, in here trying to distract others with his “gay” act.
don’t be fooled.”
What is more, I cannot find anything on this thread in which you commend either me or Paula for our position.
I love the fact that you’ve come here attacking ME specifically for calling someone ignorant in a reply to something that was an attack on a piece I wrote. What I said was not even all that much of an insult. What Pete did was attack me for an introduction which covered twelve hundred years worth of history in a broad stroke. I’m sorry that you are so upset over this whole thing; however, I might point out to you that calling someone ignorant in reply was not dismissing of our readers, but dismissing of that particular reader and his inability to grasp a very broad general introduction intended to set the stage for a specific story. You came in and attacked.
Personally, I would much rather have the comments remain to the sites like Topix. It is a pain in the butt to try and determine what the intended direction a given post is suppose to be in order to even allow it on to the comments section. It gets tiresome to try and pick through what is often very tortured writing by most people.
And, Tom, if I had intended to insult Pete, I would have questioned whether he had a rotten fish in his skull rather than a brain. Calling someone ignorant when they go off on something that is only tangentially related to the article at hand hardly seems all that insulting.
Tom
This is a post by wrightwingproxyconton. Now, I dared to disagree with this man ONCE and this is what he had to say about me or two me at every turn.
“The poster you are addressing regularly posts racist, anti Catholic, anti Mormon, anti Semitic, anti Democratic BS to get attention. He loves Cheney and thinks Scaliar is a good Supreme Court Justice who will overrule DOMA. He claims to be libertarian, but will dismiss the ample evidence of Ron Paul’s anti Semitism and homophobia (or at the very least, past support for same.) So draw your own conclusion.
On topic, of course we shouldn’t discriminate against str8, white men. That would be wrong.
We should do away with automatic str8, white male privilege, and the fact that we’re doing so has the constapo and talibangelical cretins feeling as though their lock on power is slipping away.
As for bigots who are “polite” and “respectful” in person: Of course they are. And it’s no excuse. It makes them even more odious that they would be accepted in polite company than is a raving David Duke type, in fact.
Having said this, Pat Buchanan is funny in spite of himself. He’s pretty harmless at this point, and has some good ideas opposing unnecessary US military involvements overseas. I always laugh when I think of that appalling photograph of Buchanan in his underwear in a locker room (probably a restricted club,) that you can find in the public sphere.
Praiz jeebus! ”
And YOU think that the people on Topix aren’t abusive and dismissive?
That does seem to be the issue here Tom… the fact that you are a has been and have decided it is better to not rock the boat anymore… have a guilty conscience there dude?…
what have you done lately?
And I am not your “Honey”
Alan,
It wasn’t a post on her site. It was a post that she supposedly made to OUR site claiming that amount. http://lezgetreal.com/?p=16081
As for the number, it was also in that article with a link to SFGate
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/nov05election/detail?blogid=14&entry_id=43580
And, Alan, before you talk about comparing monies, I do understand that they will not use everything, or that everything will not go to specific campaigns. However, what I mostly hear out here in Vermont is the attitude of ‘we have to educate and that will take time, so we should wait’ when politically, this has to happen in 2010 largely because two years more will give groups like NOM time to recover.
Alan,
Sometimes the only way to get anything done is to push and push hard. I hear a lot of excuses coming out of California all the time. It would be far better if they did not say what sounds like “we’ll get to it in 2012″, and instead say “We’re not sure that we can get it in 2010, but by all, we’re going to work to get it going.” Unfortunately, I’m not there. Right now, there really is a political imperative to get it moving, and a lot of the groups on the P2P front seem to be making excuses more than they seem to be pushing it. The problem in shooting for 2012 is that groups like NOM really will build up support and money again. Right now, we have momentum on our side, and they do not. Another thing is, 2010 will not have a big Presidential draw, which means that a repeal would draw in people who really care about repealing it. Right now, there is a certain amount of battleweariness in the opposition. They lost in Vermont, Iowa, New Hampshire and Maine. What is more, in 2010, the national anti-marriage groups would have to split their forces between Maine and California, but both states are fighting for marriage equality with a more local effort. NOM would have to split their meager resources between two states, but the local efforts would have more money.
There is a lot to be gained by moving now rather than later.
Obviously, the situation is not black and white. There are arguments for both sides but to outright say that the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force needs to grow a spine is unfair when their staff has been working on the ground with Vote for Equality since February running canvasses that go door-to-door while groups like EQCA, Jordan Rustin Coalition, White Knot and Young Stonewall Democrats only recently joined us in the last month.
Whether you believe in 2010 or 2012, we don’t disagree that educating voters door-to-door isn’t something that we shouldn’t be pursuing. Especially now that we know that Protect Marriage has made the decision to be on the ground working against us in CA.
Um, I think you read the SFGate article incorrectly. Marc Soloman was quoted as having said that he would not support 2010 unless he had the support of other coalition partners and $25-$50 million available to him. Not that he has that amount already. Wishing for $50 million is a lot different from having it. Both sides spent $40 million on Prop 8. If EQCA had $50 million lying around, I think they would have used it earlier.
As my other comment implies:
http://lezgetreal.com/?p=16408&cpage=1#comment-16944
If you can show me the money or flying unicorns, I’ll support 2010 in June. Forget November 2010!
Alan,
My apologies in misreading that article. However, the political issues still stand. The better time is 2010. It’s just a lot harder.
Alan,
It is not clear cut. However, I need you to understand what it sounds like out here. Neither Paula nor I are in California. We do need you to understand that WE are getting clobbered over Prop 8 all the time. Every time someone wants to attack progress in one of the other states, they hold up Prop 8. Thus, these never ending “we HAVE to wait” statements hurt us especially since they rarely ever take into account that the process could move faster.
I hear you. You are hurt by CA not having marriage equality too. Who says you have to be devisive about it though? Why not look at the situation and bitch about the people who aren’t helping us fundraise the $50 million that Marc Soloman says we need for a winning campaign? If we can raise that much money, Marc Soloman won’t have any choice but to go ahead with 2010. NOM is fundraising and donating to the campaigns in both CA and ME. It’s so easy to sit on the couch at home and bitch about others not doing enough than for us to get out and do the work that needs to be done.
If we’re all hurting, even those outside of CA, why aren’t more people doing as much if not more than our opposition to raise the money needed? One way I’ve been thinking about trying to do that is via a Facebook Cause. Let me ask you this. Would you be willing to donate $178 dollars to Vote for Equality, that’s a dollar a day for every day that CA had marriage equality last year (when the supreme court’s decision allowing it until the passage of prop 8), if I can get enough people to make donations via a Facebook Causes app to match it? That’s $356 closer to the $50 million needed for EQCA to run a 2010 initiative.
Alan,
Actually, on a different editorial, we made the recommendation that people not give to the national groups largely due to a perception of inefficiency and lack of action, but to give to local groups like EQCA which are more focused and more effective. There is a very strong perception among most of the LGBTI community that the national groups are not working very well for us. This does tend to cause people to not donate money because they do not know about EQCA or Courage Campaign. In that editorial, the push was to divert funds from the national groups which seem to be far less willing to fight and more than willing to schmooze to groups which are doing heavy pushes at a local level. Hopefully people will read it and donate to EQCA and others.