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	<title>Lez Get Real &#187; Interviews</title>
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	<description>A Gay Girl&#039;s View on the World</description>
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		<title>A Military Man and PFLAG Dad Talks About Don’t Ask-Don’t Tell</title>
		<link>http://lezgetreal.com/?p=6903</link>
		<comments>http://lezgetreal.com/?p=6903#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Lezgetreal</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Commentary]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Featured]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Interviews]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Armed forces]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Daniel Tepfer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Don't Ask Don't Tell]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gays in The Military]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Military of the United States]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Parents Family and Friends of Lesbians and Gays]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[PFLAG]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[United States Air Force]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lezgetreal.com/?p=6903</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
Since Don’t ask, Don’t tell was enacted in 1993, more than 12,000 service members have been dismissed for being gay, including dozens of Arabic speakers whose skills are particularly cherished by the military since the 9-11.
Last May, a CNN poll found that 79 percent of Americans feel that lesbian and gay military service members should [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
<div class="topsy_widget_data topsy_theme_blue" style="float: right;margin-left: 0.75em;"><script type="text/javascript" src="http://button.topsy.com/widget/retweet-big?url=http://lezgetreal.com/?p=6903&amp;title=A+Military+Man+and+PFLAG+Dad+Talks+About+Don%E2%80%99t+Ask-Don%E2%80%99t+Tell&amp;theme=blue&amp;txt_tweet=tweet&amp;txt_retweet=retweet"></script></div><p><img class="alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-6911" title="dan-tepfer" src="http://lezgetreal.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/dan-tepfer-150x150.jpg" alt="dan-tepfer" width="150" height="150" />Since Don’t ask, Don’t tell was enacted in 1993, more than 12,000 service members have been dismissed for being gay, including dozens of Arabic speakers whose skills are particularly cherished by the military since the 9-11.</p>
<p>Last May, a CNN poll found that 79 percent of Americans feel that lesbian and gay military service members should be allowed to serve in the military.</p>
<p>Daniel Tepfer of Beavercreek, a town near Dayton, OH, is one of those who are in favor of junking the ban.</p>
<p>Tepfer, retired from the Air Force as a colonel in 1989 after 23 yeas of service as a combat missile crewman and a contracts officer, and is pretty much a Regular Joe; he is the father of three and a proud grandpa.</p>
<p>Col. Tepfer is also a national director of Parents Family and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) and became a member after his daughter, Amanda, came out as lesbian in 1996 while a student at Dayton’s Wright State University.</p>
<p>PFLAG is a national non-profit organization with over 200,000 members and supporters and over 500 affiliates in the United States. This vast grassroots network is cultivated, resourced and serviced by the PFLAG national office, located in Washington, D.C., the national Board of Directors and 13 Regional Directors.</p>
<p>More recently however, Col. Tepfer has become a very outspoken critic of the ban on openly lesbian and gay military service members known as “Don’t ask, Don’t tell,” and was a feature speaker at a recent rally on Capitol Hill covered by LGR.</p>
<p>During his speech Col Tepfer said…</p>
<p>&#8220;I confess to you today that while I was on active duty, I gave little or no thought to whether gay people were serving with me or whether they should be allowed to serve. Then everything changed. After my Air Force retirement and after Don&#8217;t Ask, Don&#8217;t Tell was enacted; my wife and I learned that one of our three children is gay. What a mind-opener and heart-changer! We became aware of the many ways that gay, lesbian and bi-sexual citizens are treated unequally, including Don&#8217;t Ask, Don&#8217;t Tell.&#8221;</p>
<p>In his closing Col. Tepfer asked those of us assembled to picture two uniformed officers knocking on the door and &#8220;bringing the devastating news that one of the two men who live together in that home have been killed in action. But wait, you can&#8217;t imagine that scenario because it wouldn&#8217;t happen. Don&#8217;t Ask Don&#8217;t Tell restrictions would prohibit that…&#8221;</p>
<p>After Col Tepfer’s speech… I found I had tears in my eyes visualizing having someone you love and cherish, giving the last full measure of devotion they can for this country and that service person’s surviving partner not receiving from that country even the most basics of human kindness that country could offer because they are gay…</p>
<p>Because I know first hand what that kindness means to the one who receives them….</p>
<p>When a soldier dies,  an officer is assigned to attend their funeral. Part of those officers’ duties is give the surviving spouse the American flag that has been draped over the loved ones coffin. Honorable discharged veterans are also permitted this honor at their funerals.</p>
<p>In December, my partner of 10 years passed away due to breast cancer…</p>
<p>Debbie had been an officer in the United States Navy for a time and was thereby eligible for and accorded military honors at her funeral. However there was a momentary controversy just before her funeral over just who would receive her flag… My Father, a retired Air Force officer, and Debbie’s father, a retired navy officer, quickly explained to the young officer in charge of Debs honor guard the nature of our relationship and without further discussion, at the end of Debbie’s funeral service, the officer in charge did the decent thing and presented the flag to me…</p>
<p>And it meant a lot to me to be told, … <em><strong>&#8220;This flag is presented on behalf of a grateful nation and the United States Navy in appreciation for your loved one&#8217;s honorable and faithful service.&#8221; </strong></em>I knew this “small kindness” would mean even more to someone who had lost that loved one because they were killed in the line of duty in the service of his or her country…  and what it would mean to someone not get that flag because of some arcane government policy.</p>
<p>So I knew I <strong><em>had</em> </strong>to interview Col. Tepfer and do this story about him.</p>
<p>Col. Tepfer served in the U.S. Air Force from 1965 to 1989.</p>
<p>He was commissioned a second lieutenant through the AFROTC program after graduating with a BA in English from Butler University in Indianapolis, and later earned an MBA from the University of Montana. He is also  a graduate of the  Armed Forces Staff College (AFSC), the USAF Squadron Officers’ School (SOS) and the Industrial College of the Armed Forces (ICAF)..  At retirement, he held the rank of Colonel.</p>
<p>While on active duty  he served as an administrative officer, an Armed Forces courier, a Minuteman combat crew commander and instructor. The last 11 years of his career were in procurement. He worked in contract administration, was a buyer in the KC-10 program office, was deputy director of contracts in the F-16 weapon system program and was director of contracts in the Joint STARS program.</p>
<p>Tepfer is the recipient of numerous military awards, including USAF Legion of Merit, USAF Meritorious Service Medal, Joint Service Commendation Medal and the AF Commendation Medal with oak leaf cluster.</p>
<p>Tepfer and his wife Nancy have three children. They adopted their daughter Amanda, from Korea when she was 11 months old and I first asked him as a military man what was his initial reaction when he found out his child was gay.</p>
<p>“Although it might for some people, I don&#8217;t think being retired military had any impact on my reaction to having a gay child,” Tepfer said, “First of all we (my wife Nancy and I) had thought that our daughter was a lesbian long before she admitted it to us.  Amanda arrived from Korea when she was 11 months old and from the time she could first walk and run she was into sports.  Of course being an athletic woman doesn&#8217;t mean you are gay, but stereotypes always include a grain of truth.”</p>
<p>Col. Tepfer also said, “My wife and I were pretty liberal; we already didn&#8217;t think being gay was a choice and we thought gay people should be treated fairly, but it still was an adjustment.   We went into the closet (PFLAG says when the child comes out the parents go into the closet. We  had the usual anxieties about whether she would be mistreated, and we agonized over whom to tell, when to tell, and what would the reactions be from our friends and family.  At first I never said a word to anyone and my wife went to the library to read as much about GLBT issues as she could find.  Even  after my wife and I began attending PFLG meetings, we didn&#8217;t talk to anyone else about it.  I finally came out to people at work in 2002, and then I found my soapbox and have been shouting for GLBT rights ever since.”</p>
<p>Tepfer said that he didn’t think there was a time when he did not accept our daughter for who she is, but did think the question for him and his wife is when they &#8220;openly acknowledge&#8221; her for who she is.</p>
<p>“ I tell new parents at PFLAG meetings that when the child first comes out, she has already &#8220;gone&#8221; down the GLBT road some distance, while the parents are just now starting and have a lot of learning to do to arrive at that same point” Tepfer told us,  “I think our initial emotion was sadness. When you first discover that your child is gay, your initial concern is for their safety.”</p>
<p>Tepfer elaborated on this point by saying, “You have heard of AIDS and you have read in the newspaper or seen on TV of the brutal beatings that many gays have experienced. You need to discover more about the world where your child is, and has been living, as quickly as possible.  And of course you are concerned about the plans you have had for the child (wedding and children), but as you learn about the GLBT world, you also learn that those still are a possibility.”</p>
<p>When asked about his journey to PFLAG father started out Col Tepfer told me “In September of 1998, the United Church of Christ we attend elected to join the AIDS walk, which I supported,” Tepfer said.</p>
<p>“Our daughter had suggested that my wife and I check PFLAG out, so walked over, met the other PFLAG parents and joined them.  During the walk, I not only talked to them but wound up carrying the banner.  I went to the next meeting (Oct 1998). I remember that date because Matthew Shepard had just been killed in Laramie, Wyoming.  I convinced Nancy to join me at meetings in early 1999. She didn&#8217;t think she needed PFLAG, but soon was as enthusiastic as I was.  I have been on the local chapter board since the fall of 1999.  I am now the Coordinator of PFLAG Chapters for the state of Ohio, and I am on the National Board of Directors.”</p>
<p>We then talked about The US Military, Don’t Ask- Don’t tel, the impacts of continuing the DADT policy and it&#8217;s repeal …</p>
<p>“As I said in my remarks at the rally,” said Tepfer, “the loss of highly qualified people and critical skills is a terrible waste.  The money spent to train them is lost.”</p>
<p>Tepfer, referencing a Pentagon report released last Tuesday on sexual abuse in the military, added, “And now we read that the incident of rape of female service members is on the rise. Perhaps this is the direct result of the lowered standards from granting waivers (even waivers for felons) to those who otherwise would not qualify.”</p>
<p>The Department of Defense significantly increased the numbers of “moral waivers” granted to allow individuals with criminal convictions to serve in the military in an effort to fill the ranks of the Army and the Marine Corps after the start of the War in Iraq. The waivers were for crimes that range from drug offenses and theft &#8211; to sex crimes and manslaughter or vehicular homicide. The number of waivers issued by the Army increased from 249 in fiscal 2006 to 511 in fiscal 2007, and the increase for the Marine Corps for the same period was from 208 to 350.</p>
<p>“When I was on active duty I quickly discovered that getting quality people was a tough job,” Col Tepfer said, “and then when you were able to get them, the next job was to keep them.  Right now qualified gay and lesbian citizens are standing outside the gate trying to get in.  Others who managed to get in are being thrown out.  Where is the sense in that?”</p>
<p>Since January, eleven service persons have been discharged under the provision of Don’t Ask-Don’t Tell.</p>
<p>I mention to Col Tepfer that my father, also a ranking former military man, has said the when the order finally comes down; the U.S.Military will &#8220;salute and execute,&#8221; and Tepfer agreed saying, “I totally agree with your father.  Maj Gen D. Laich, one of the 102 flag officers who were at the &#8220;1200 Flags&#8221; event 2 years ago, came to our chapter to speak on Veterans Day last November.  He also says the military will obey. They stood up and saluted in 1948 when the services were racially integrated, even if some disagreed with that decision.  They will do so again.”</p>
<p>“We are the only country in NATO that rejects gays.” Tepfer went on,  “Even Israel saw the value in accepting all people despite contrary religious views.’</p>
<p>Twenty-three of the 26 NATO nations allow gays and lesbians to serve openly and proudly. The United States, Turkey and Portugal are the only NATO nations that forbid gays and lesbians to serve openly in the armed services. Nine nations allowing open service have fought alongside American troops in Operation Iraqi Freedom. In addition, 12 nations allowing open service fought alongside U.S. troops in Operation Enduring Freedom. The CIA, FBI, Defense Intelligence Agency and Secret Service also all have openly gay and lesbian personnel fighting in the war on terrorism.</p>
<p>Tepfer says he believes career service members will not stand in the way of a repeal of “don’t ask don’t tell.”…</p>
<p>Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen said to graduate cadets at the U.S. Military Academy in May about DADT “It’s a law, and we follow it. Should the law change, the military will carry that out too.”</p>
<p>“Another argument against repeal is that some personnel will leave the service rather than serve with gays,” Tepfer told me.  “Some of that will happen as well, but again, probably not as much as expected.  I would anticipate that those losses would be more than offset by those who choose to join up because of the repeal, both gay and straight. Additionally, gay and lesbians now serving in the military may choose to remain because they will be able to do so without the stress caused by Don&#8217;t Ask, Don&#8217;t Tell,” Tepfer said.</p>
<p>A December 2006 poll of service members who had served in Iraq or Afghanistan found 73 percent of those polled were “comfortable with lesbians and gays.” A 2004 poll also found that a majority of junior enlisted service members believed gays and lesbians should be allowed to serve openly in the military.</p>
<p>Finally, on when he sees the end of DADT coming said Tepfer …</p>
<p>“It is hard for me to know the reaction of lawmakers and the DoD bosses. I have been out of the USAF for 20 years. It is now a different service.  I never was stationed in Washington and am not sure I would even have known the answer to that question if asked 20 years ago.  I follow politics more today then in 1989, but the senior DoD leadership is still an unknown to me.” However, Tepfer also said “I would hope that we can see it end during this, the 111th,congressional session.  There are other items on the GLBT agenda, and I know everyone has their priority, but I think it will happen before the end of 2010.”</p>
<div class="zemanta-pixie" style="margin-top: 10px; height: 15px;"><a class="zemanta-pixie-a" title="Zemified by Zemanta" href="http://reblog.zemanta.com/zemified/5bd290a6-2929-44a3-aa89-1a8414a94278/"><img class="zemanta-pixie-img" style="border: medium none; float: right;" src="http://img.zemanta.com/reblog_c.png?x-id=5bd290a6-2929-44a3-aa89-1a8414a94278" alt="Reblog this post [with Zemanta]" /></a><span class="zem-script more-related"><script src="http://static.zemanta.com/readside/loader.js" type="text/javascript"></script></span></div>

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		<title>Changing Lesbian Women&#8217;s Views of Themselves through Literature</title>
		<link>http://lezgetreal.com/?p=5055</link>
		<comments>http://lezgetreal.com/?p=5055#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 01:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Lezzie</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Commentary]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Featured]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Interviews]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Editora Malagueta]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Laura Bacelar]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Lesbian Books]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[LGBT Brazil]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Publishing]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[
April 2008– a group of sassy Brazilian women decides to publish books for lesbians. 
Coming from different professional backgrounds, they miss imaginative, fun and hot books for women like themselves and then they start the first L2L Publishing company in Latin America, Editora Malagueta (Red Chilli Pepper Publishers), directed by Laura Bacelar, a famous name [...]]]></description>
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<div class="topsy_widget_data topsy_theme_blue" style="float: right;margin-left: 0.75em;"><script type="text/javascript" src="http://button.topsy.com/widget/retweet-big?url=http://lezgetreal.com/?p=5055&amp;title=Changing+Lesbian+Women%27s+Views+of+Themselves+through+Literature&amp;theme=blue&amp;txt_tweet=tweet&amp;txt_retweet=retweet"></script></div><p><img class="alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-5078" src="http://lezgetreal.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/bookstackcat-150x150.jpg" alt="bookstackcat" width="150" height="150" /><strong>April 2008– a group of sassy Brazilian women decides to publish books for lesbians. </strong></p>
<p>Coming from different professional backgrounds, they miss imaginative, fun and hot books for women like themselves and then they start the first L2L Publishing company in Latin America, <a href="http://www.editoramalagueta.com.br/editora2/">Editora Malagueta </a>(Red Chilli Pepper Publishers), directed by Laura Bacelar, a famous name in the book market, especially in the book-for-minorities market. She kindly answered some of my questions about the Brazilian lesbian reading scenario, via e-mail.</p>
<p><em>Do you have any idea how many lesbian novels there are written by Brazilian women?</em></p>
<p>Not really, but I know it’s a few. There are many short stories on the Internet in sites like <a href="http://glsplanet.terra.com.br/xanainbox/">xana in box</a> and more recently <a href="http://www.abcles.com.br/">abcLes</a>. When you look at the amount of pages written, you quite say the production is reasonable, but most of it doesn’t exactly fit the ‘novel’ format. Printed lesbian novels, we certainly have no more than 30.</p>
<p><em>In your opinion, do Brazilian lesbians read little?<br />
</em></p>
<p>Brazilian people in general read little but there’s no doubt it’s NOT a ‘writing’ country. It’s not difficult to find talented women willing to show their good works, but they lack the knowledge of what are characters, plot and written text.</p>
<p><em>What do you think is the most important lesbian novel ever? </em></p>
<p>That’s a complicated question to answer once it depends a lot on personal taste, history and stuff. My first book was Patricia Hihgsmith’s <em>Carol, </em><em><span style="font-style: normal;">later I discovered this was the first lesbian happy-ending book ever, what made me a lot of good, as well </span></em>Isabel Miller’s <em>Sarah &amp; Patience</em>, <em>Desert hearts</em> and <em>Curious wine</em>. But despite of representing the tension between inner desire and &#8220;social oppression, I guess nowadays they are not seen as good books for the new readers.</p>
<p class="ecmsonormal" style="margin: 0.75pt 0cm 16.2pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-ansi-language: EN-US;" lang="EN-US"><em> List three strong characteristics of Editora Malagueta’s books.</em> </span></p>
<p>They are well-written, charming and positive, because suicidal, drug addicted and lonely lesbians, well, they are everywhere in other books. This view must change.</p>
<p><em><a href="http://lezgetreal.ning.com/profile/Boudecca" target="_new"><img src="http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/lezgetreal/Staff%20Pics/OGLezzie-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Lezzie" align="left" /></a> Lezzie is half-closeted Brazilian Philosophy High School teacher writing on everything she has the opportunity to read, listen to and see (as a good Gemini).You can find out more about here by checking her profile at <a href="http://lezgetreal.ning.com/profile/Boudecca">http://lezgetreal.ning.com/profile/Boudecca</a>. </em></p>
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		<title>Mayhem at the State Capitol</title>
		<link>http://lezgetreal.com/?p=528</link>
		<comments>http://lezgetreal.com/?p=528#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 00:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Lezgetreal</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[A Gay Girl's View]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Commentary]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Featured]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Interviews]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lezgetreal.com/?p=528</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
I am sure you are all aware of the nativity scene and the atheist sign up at the state Capitol. 
O&#8217;Reilly was having a fit over it, to the point of announcing the state Governor&#8217;s phone number on air of his talking points commentary.
Apparently, someone took it upon themselves to chuck the sign out the [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
<div class="topsy_widget_data topsy_theme_blue" style="float: right;margin-left: 0.75em;"><script type="text/javascript" src="http://button.topsy.com/widget/retweet-big?url=http://lezgetreal.com/?p=528&amp;title=Mayhem+at+the+State+Capitol&amp;theme=blue&amp;txt_tweet=tweet&amp;txt_retweet=retweet"></script></div><p><strong>I am sure you are all aware of the nativity scene and the atheist sign up at the state Capitol. </strong></p>
<p>O&#8217;Reilly was having a fit over it, to the point of announcing the state Governor&#8217;s phone number on air of his talking points commentary.<object height="344" width="425"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8EuLjX6Flmc&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8EuLjX6Flmc&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="344" width="425"></embed></object></p>
<p>Apparently, someone took it upon themselves to chuck the sign out the door and take it to a radio station, that has been talking smack about it. A state trooper was sent to pick it up, while people showed up to protest at the crime scene, which was filling up with t.v. cameras. Among the crowd was James Pritchard of Seattle, who wore a pointy green hat and passed out candy-striped business cards proclaiming him &#8220;J. Elfus, Special Assistant to the Claus.&#8221; The ones showing up to protest were Christian groups. What a joke.<br /><span id="fullpost"><br /><object height="344" width="425"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Rm7XhWUkFxc&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Rm7XhWUkFxc&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="344" width="425"></embed></object><br />So much for sharing during this time of season. Listen, I haven&#8217;t talked about this because I really don&#8217;t know how I feel about it. I see both parties point of view, I do. But, I have to tell you, the Christian&#8217;s reaction is a joke. YOU ARE MAKING THE REST OF THE WORLD LAUGH AT US, SERIOUSLY, STOP! Now, the best comment I found so far on the <a href="http://www.columbian.com/article/20081205/NEWS06/312059974">Columbian</a> site: by Melinda Parrott : 12/5/08 3:29pm<br />
<blockquote>First of all..<br />Our Country was founded on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The pilgrims came over seeking a land to have freedom to worship God. From that point Christianity has played a major part of our history. From the signing of our Declaration of Independence to the forming of the branches of our Government and establishing the laws of our Country. Even to the point that you could NOT hold a Political Office without being a Christian nore could you even be a US Citizen. The first President and The Presidents there after put the teaching of the Bible and Prayer in our White House, Schools and anytime they met. They FIRST PRAYED for hours to ask Our LORD JESUS CHRIST for his guidance on this Country..</p>
<p>To go against God and his word was considered a act of treason. Hum.. wonder what would happened if they were here today?</p>
<p>I believe it is NOW time for Americans and Christians to take a Stand.. WE WANT AMERICA BACK. My prayer is that the Holy Spirit will come down on America and Do what is Necessary for her to come BACK to Jesus..</p>
<p>And YES we say Merry CHRISTmas at our home! God Bless America!</p></blockquote>
<p>   Does anyone see something wrong with this woman? Does anyone smell Taliban, dressed in Christian clothing? Anyone? Does anyone know why the Pilgrims headed over here? Does anyone know the history of when the national motto &#8220;IN GOD WE TRUST&#8221; was added? Anyone? 1956. I am sick and tired of all these &#8220;Christians&#8221; trying to claim stake on the whole country, the whole U.S. of A. Listen, if you are a Pilgrim and a Puritan, then o.k. I back off, but the rest of you, go back to school, take an on-line course, learn from someone and educate yourself, not only on the real footsteps of Christ, but on the history of this country.</p>
<p>The L.D.S didn&#8217;t get off that ship. The Catholics didn&#8217;t get off that ship, and those of you that call yourselves, &#8220;Christians&#8221; you come from so many different branches (you can&#8217;t even get along amongst yourselves) that it is hard to keep track. Control your theocratic, power mongering selves and get a grip. The rest of the country is watching and you are making us look like fools!</p>
<p>The world is stewing&#8230;guess what is starting to boil? Religion.
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