Debbie Thurman

 Posted by Melanie Nathan, 11.05 p.pm PST  1/1/10

  Lisa Miller, ‘ex-lesbian,’ has fled from her legal obligation to hand her daughter over to the custodial parent Janet Jenkins. She has disappeared with the child and all the while egged on by a very righteous bunch of  Christians who deem their interpretation of the Bible superior to civil law of the United States of America.  See my colleague,  Bridgette P. LaVictoire, Ex-Lesbian” Lisa Miller Fails To Hand Over Custody of Isabella To Janet Jenkins Written on 1 Jan, 2010 at 16:05 

Ex-gay proponent,  disguised as mental health expert, Debbie Thurman, creator of a support group, today cheered the disappearance of Miller sometime earlier this Thurman’s blog called this apparent kidnapping an example of “true motherhood”:

Thurman’s BLOG clearly sought to aid and abet the criminal act of Lisa Miller, spurring her along with prayer () and G-d knows what else,  and now guess what like Miller Thurman’s BLOG has done its own disappearing Act, clear evidence of her assistance and encouragement of the sacrificial lamb Miller,  to commit a crime.

I kept a copy of her website BLOG because I knew that when today came if Miller would fail to hand over the child as ordered by a Vermont Judge, Cohen, , Thurman would be compelled to take her BLOG, evidence of her crime, down.  SO if the FEDS want me as a witness I am ready willing and able. There are hundreds of LGBT bloggers out there who have been reporting on this for some time. I am sure they too would be willing to provide any evidence that the Blogosphere may have produced.

It is about time that religions interference and stepping on civil law is exposed for what it is.  The LGBT community is ready to be active when the civil law discriminates and now we are ready to be good citizens to urge the upholding of the civil law when it is broken; and to add insult to injury broken in the name of Jesus.  

The Christian right has no authority to circumvent the  law of this country.  This is the perfect example of the danger in failing to honor the boundary between Church and State. This failure to separate the two and invoke the Bible in place of the law of the land would serve to give us license to stone adulterers, and you all know the rest of what the bible has to say.

This is what Debbie  Thurman’s now missing Post says about now missing Miller :

“Were I in Lisa’s shoes, I could only hope to have the faith and courage she has displayed for the past six years. …

Lisa obeyed God in seeking to raise Isabella in the Christian faith. Isabella learned Scripture, apologetics and the art of prayer at her mother’s knee and in church, to the extent that she found her Christian school Bible classes boring and “childish.” This is an intelligent, precocious 7-year-old, who knows her mind and can speak it. She would have given Janet Jenkins nightmares had she consented to live under the same roof.

I cannot answer the burning question on everyone’s lips: Where are Lisa and Isabella? Somewhere safe, I pray. How and when did they get there? Only God knows. ..

What happens now? A lot of frustration, recrimination and more lies on one side and a collective sigh of relief on the other. The courts still have a huge task set before them, meanwhile. Lisa and Isabella represent only one of many similar cases waiting to be resolved. We need precedents that honor the prevailing states’ rights, laws and constitutions. The majority of Americans overwhelmingly support traditional marriage. If the tyrannical minority wants to push against that, it can and will be met with civil disobedience. There is no other way.

Lisa Miller is a mother who would give up her life to save her child. Of that there is no doubt. She apparently has chosen to forfeit a large measure of her liberty, personal property and pursuit of happiness in assuring that child her God-ordained future, much as a group of patriots pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor more than two centuries ago to establish this nation.

I say God bless and long live Lisa and Isabella Miller. All who have known them are the better for it.

Thurman’s statement seems to confirm allegations that Miller is being used by Thurman and Christian Rightists at the Liberty Counsel as a test case for their Manhattan Declaration, which is a vow to violate any law that fundamentalists happen to disagree with.

MMM, what do you all think?  So go to her BLOG site http://theformers.wordpress.com/2009/12/30/this-is-true-motherhood/

and you will see nada gone bye bye!

And  then there is this guy who ought to be subpoenaed too.

“ I pray,” says  Drew Taggart  “people ‘along the way’ are brave enough and smart enough to render the necessary assistance to Lisa and Isabella so this girl can be raised in a healthy environment. I just hope Lisa did her homework and did this disappearing act properly.”

In a subsequent defense of this statement, Taggart says:

I doubt she’ll ever see a day of jail. Once word of this gets out, millions of people are going to be outraged. And there are plenty of local and a few state law enforcement agencies around the country, who will not waste a minute trying to find her. William Cohen is a leftwing hack and this ruling is a joke. Without the support of law enforcement, especially wherever Lisa opts to call her new home, this ruling is going nowhere.

So back to my having copied the  now barren BLOG as a keepsake, I find the comments  here revealed to show  this Mr. Taggert that sentiment is not always anti-gay but that we have a way of being on the side of what is fair and correct  and average Americans have no problem seeing the danger in what you preach.

Comments from Thurmans now missing BLOG:-

” Surely there are similar precedents to draw upon involving hetro couples. Namely, situations where the mother’s male partner/husband is not the biological father, and has not adopted the child, but at some point had a supportive relationship to the child as a stepfather.

Comment by Priya Lynn — December 30, 2009 @ 2:32 pm“

I can think of anecdotal cases involving people I’ve known (in which case the former stepfather has no rights), but I’m not a legal scholar so I’d appreciate any info on the matter. Anyone?

Comment by Brad — December 30, 2009 @ 12:02 pm

If a warrant is issued for her arrest, anyone providing her with assistance would be aiding a fugitive. Somehow I doubt Debbie Thurman wants to do state or federal time. Since the State of Virginia is now supporting the Vermont Court as they are required, I would guess that Miller would flee south (perhaps even to Mexico). If anyone helps Miller flee Virginia, they are looking at federal penalties. Judges hold a dim view of those who flout court rulings. I wouldn’t expect much leniency in sentencing.

Comment by John — December 30, 2009 @ 1:12 pm

Unbelievably someone on the page made sense in pointing out that Miller hasn’t put herself in a good position and being on the run actually hurts Isabella.

Comment by a. mcewen — December 30, 2009 @ 1:15 pm

So much for Thurman’s lame excuse that she didn’t give Miller any legal advice. Always knew you were a BS’er Debbie, thanks for coming out of the closet and admitting it.

Comment by Priya Lynn — December 30, 2009 @ 1:29 pm

If Miller does not comply with the law and wants to play martyr – I say fine. She can send a few years handcuffed and locked in the can to think about the sin of kidnapping.

What Miller is doing is not holy. She is a poor role model who is mentally abusing her child. There will likely be massive shrink bills in the future for Isabella, thanks to Miller.

Her lawlessness is not to be compared to our nation’s founders. It is criminal behavior, profoundly irresponsible and deeply immoral. It disgusts me that these frauds are cynically co-opting American symbols in their politically based criminality.

It is a shame that Miller allowed herself to be used as a pawn in the Culture War Syndicate. I doubt her friends will visit her much in the hoosegow once she is no longer useful to their political games.

Comment by Wayne Besen — December 30, 2009 @ 1:52 pm

“So much for Thurman’s lame excuse that she didn’t give Miller any legal advice. Always knew you were a BS’er Debbie, thanks for coming out of the closet and admitting it.”

   And you are deducing this how, exactly?

Comment by Debbie Thurman — December 30, 2009 @ 2:24 pm

You really are a piece of work Debbie. You just admitted the truth in your own blog, praising miller for the kidnapping, calling it “true motherhood”. Now of course in your Christian world where black is white and bad is good, you’ll have some pathetic excuse for how your actions are really the opposite of what you’ve done, but we’re not stupid and we’re not buying any of your BS. “ 

Comment by Priya Lynn — December 30, 2009 @ 2:32 pm

THURMANS WEBSITE  is located at http://debbiethurman.com/dt_files/aboutdebbie.php 

Last but not least important, I am urging the FEDS to investigate the Liberty Council, Debbie Thurman, Taggart, et al to see just how Ms Miller has financed her escape… Check the Banks and there is likely to be a trail and who knows that trail might lead to Isabella.

At the same time I urge Ms Miller to turn the child in, the damage is done and your only chance of leniency is that once you have done so you may be reprieved.  I urge also the Christian Ministries involved or not involved to encourage Ms. Miller to subvert the Manhatten Declaration and to obey the Civil Law especially those of you who may be implicated in this.  If you do turn yourself in pronto,  you may find a willing Judge let go of having you do time.  That would be a lot better for Isabella.    A good mediator may then help you with some supervised visitation, once Janet decides she is comfortable with such.  Or do you prefer Jail visits for Isabella?

Blogged by Melanie Nathan: nathan@privatecourts.com
www.oblogdeeoblogda.wordpress.com

1/1/10-by Paula Brooks
A New Jersey judge has ruled that a gestational surrogate who gave birth to twin girls for her brother and his legal spouse, is their legal mother, even though she is not genetically related to the twins.

Relying heavily on the precedent established by the New Jersey Supreme Court in 1988 during the case of Baby M, where Mary Beth Whitehead decided that she wanted to keep a baby she had carried as part of a surrogacy agreement with a New Jersey couple, New Jersey Superior Court Judge Francis B. Schultz ruled that Angelia G. Robinson maternal rights could not be terminated against her will.

Citing a passage in the Baby M decision at said “The surrogacy contract is based on principles that are directly contrary to the objectives of our laws…. It guarantees the separation of a child from its mother; it looks to adoption regardless of suitability; it totally ignores the child; it takes the child from the mother regardless of her wishes and maternal fitness.” Schultz wrote, “Would it really make any difference if the word ‘gestational’ was substituted for the word ’surrogacy’ in the above quotation? I think not.”

Court papers released last week say Ms Robinson agreed to act as a surrogate and have the children in 2006 for her brother, Donald Robinson Hollingsworth, an accountant in Manhattan, and his spouse, Sean Hollingsworth. The embryos were created from anonymous donor eggs and fertilized with sperm from Sean Hollingsworth.

The girls were born in October 2006 and went to live with the Hollingsworths at their home in Jersey City. But in March 2007 Ms. Robinson filed a lawsuit seeking custody, alleging that she had been coerced into the arrangement.

In the Baby M case, Mary Beth Whitehead, carried her own genetic child for another couple after artificial insemination with the man’s sperm, but later decided that she wanted to keep the baby. The New Jersey Supreme Court invalidated the traditional surrogacy agreement in that case, which provided a $10,000 fee to Whitehead. The Court also barred the use of money in an adoption placement and further held that no one could contractually abandon his or her parental rights.

However in gestational surrogacy, the surrogate becomes pregnant via embryo transfer with a child of which she is not the biological mother. She may have made an arrangement to relinquish it to the biological mother or father to raise, or to a parent who is unrelated to the child (e. g. because the child was conceived using egg donation, sperm donation or is the result of a donated embryo).

Prof. Charles P. Kindregan, an expert in reproductive technology law who teaches at Suffolk University Law School in Boston, said the New Jersey ruling, which was made Dec. 23 but released to the parties in the case this week, could expand the rights of gestational surrogates if it stood.

“If it’s upheld, that suggests that gestational surrogacy is not as different from traditional surrogacy as we’ve always interpreted it to be,” Professor Kindregan said.

Mr. Kindregan has worked with an American Bar Association committee in an effort to standardize surrogacy laws across the country…. (via NYTimes.com)

Since 2007, custody of the twins has been shared between the Hollingsworths’ home and that of Robinson’s, who has three parenting days a week. Judge Schultz’s ruling will give, Robinson, the right to seek primary custody of the children at a trial scheduled for latter this year.

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• Custody Battle Pits Gay Couple Against Surrogate (blogs.wsj.com)

8/22/09-by Paula Brooks
Reports coming from Sweden are saying that a shortage of healthy sperm and a spike in demand from lesbian couples has caused a backlog of artificial insemination requests at Swedish fertility clinics, that is forcing couples seeking the procedure to look outside the country.

According to Sweden’s English language newspaper, The Local, the problem stems in part from a 2005 change in laws governing fertility treatment at Swedish hospitals. That change granted lesbian couples the right to receive fertility treatments that previously were only offered only to married women or those who were in registered heterosexual partnerships.

Inger Bryman, head of gynecology and reproductive medicine at Gothenburg’s Sahlgrenska University Hospital said, “We had estimated an increase of around 25 couples per year after the law change. Now there are 90 couples in line.”

However, Swedish lesbians are not the only cause of the sperm shortages.

Swedish law allows children born from artificial insemination to learn their biological father’s identity once they turn 18. That fact has discouraged donors, thus adding to the crisis.

However, the major reason for the shortage say Swedish health officials is due to poor quality sperm, either related to deterioration while being frozen or to medical conditions.

Because all this, Bryman explained, the wait can be up to 18 months and her hospital is unable to comply with Sweden’s healthcare guarantee law, which says that patients must receive treatment within a reasonable amount of time and last spring, the hospital started an ad campaign to actively recruit new donors in an effort to reduce wait times.

With the sperm shortage, and wait times, many Swedish couples have now chosen to seek treatment in other countries, chiefly in Denmark or Finland.

Related articles by Zemanta

• Killing sperm donation (guardian.co.uk)
• More than a third of women ‘have experienced fertility problems’ (telegraph.co.uk)
• Fertility Rights for England’s Lesbians Commence (queerty.com)

Clonaid is a website that advertises “reproductive cloning services”.

I first happened upon the site when adding Google ads to our site. They were text only advertisements, which are automatically displayed depending on the content of your site. Since this is a lesbian website, ads for LGBTs commonly display as well as some for anti-gay’s. It’s all in the keywords.

I was amazed however, when I saw this ad on our page:

Your Child by Cloning
Infertile, Single, Homosexual? we help you to have your own child
www.clonaid.com

Whoa!

Upon looking further into the site here are the services that Clonaid offers:

Clonaid™ is the world’s leading provider of reproductive human cloning services. Eve, the first cloned baby, was born Dec. 26, 2002, thanks to our team of highly skilled scientists. Since then, we’ve been able to help a number of patients have their own children through our cloning technology.

Clonaid™ can help you:

• If you’re sterile and have lost hope of having the child you dream of.

• If you’re homosexual and deeply desire a child who would carry your own genes.

• If you’ve just lost – or are about to lose – a beloved family member and would like to see an identical twin of that person begin a new life.

• If you’re HIV+ and want to have a child that would be your genetic twin – without infecting either the baby or your partner with the virus.

• If you simply want to be cloned, whatever your reasons may be.

This is really blowing my mind!!

I tried to wrap my mind around this. My wife and I have been trying to have a baby for the past few years, and have elected to try to have a child that would be genetically similar to the both of us as possible, thus choosing a donor father who resembles me a lot. We’ve been having a hard time, having lost a pregnancy 2 years ago, and failed tries since then.

Looking at Clonaid as an option for lesbian pregnancy, it really truly freaked me out when I thought about this fully.

Lesbians like me can have a clone of them or their partner, or any other chosen ‘cell donor’, to be implanted in either partner’s womb. The part that freaks me out about this is that the resulting child is not a creation of the parent, rather a replica of a previous creation. That would mean for me, that I would be giving birth to a new version of my wife, or my wife would be giving birth to a new me. Or… we could give birth to our own twin. WOW.

The fact that this is a possibility is truly incredible and I imagine there are circumstances where cloning is helpful.

I just can’t see this being a reality in my life, it would just be too weird to me. I imagine my child would seem like a robot to me, an android if you will; and I think I would always look at that child a little different, possibly with scrutiny.

Other couples, however, have found some benefit from the Clonaid services.

Dr. Brigitte Boisselier, head of the company that leads the Clonaid project, said babies cloned by her company are growing up healthy and normal.

“We’ve helped almost 100 families who were desperate to have a child,” Boisselier said. “Our reward has been to see a number of cloned babies growing up normally, like any infant born through natural reproduction or through in vitro fertilization.”

Some of the little known facts sprinkled around the cloning website:

“Clonaid has been able to find living cells in a body that has been dead for 4 months – there is hope!”

“Clonaid has had huge interest from people of all walks of life including many politicians and celebrities.”

Some of the other services offered by Clonaid:

-Having your cells preserved (Insuraclone™)
-Having your pet cloned (Clone-a-Pet™)
-Purchasing eggs (Ovulaid™)

You can find out more about reproductive cloning by Clonaid at their website here.

Julie Phineas is a work at home mom of 2 who lives in Southern California. You can find out more about her by visiting her page on MySpace.

**Warning: Some people may find this post offensive.**

One of the downsides of making a baby when you are a lesbian is having to deal with sperm.

Sperm is one of the ingredients you will need when making a baby, and before you can get anywhere in this baby making scenario you are going to need to locate some. There are many issues to consider when locating sperm such as the source of the sperm, the location of your source, and criteria by which you choose which sperm you like or not. Convenient access to your chosen sperm might also be an issue that becomes important to you as well. In addition, becoming comfortable with saying the word ’sperm’ is definitely a must.

Now, first and foremost the source of your sperm has to be able to make sperm in the first place so only accept sperm from men in their child-bearing years.

Also be sure that your sperm source is disease free, genetically superior, and a magnet for success if possible. When you are ready to begin your search for sperm, keep in mind that not all sperm sources are ideal. Many sources of sperm can in fact bring upon heavy duty side effects such as custody battles, constant reminders of a bad choice, and the occasional appearance on Jerry Springer. Careful consideration is a must when choosing your sperm source, and if needed, get a lawyer. Once you are prepared to begin your search for sperm, make sure you and your partner have a safe word to use instead of ’sperm’ for when you are talking about it in public.

When you are ready to begin your search, here are some good sources for locating sperm:

- First and foremost number one guaranteed simplest easiest highly recommended successful way to locate sperm is from the sperm bank. You go there, sign up, customize your preferences, and adjust your settings. Make a withdrawal and then have them deposit it. Be careful if your bank has high interest, withdrawals from the sperm bank have been known to double and triple instantly!

- Ask your friend for some. If you’ve got a male friend in his child-bearing years that isn’t doing anything productive with his sperm, ask him if you can have some to put to good use. It helps if you have a good relationship with this sperm source and should know him for at least 3 weeks before asking for his sperm.

- Ask a family member for some. If you are set on having a baby that looks like you, a sperm source that is related to you is a good way do that. Make sure your partner is okay with carrying your cousin’s baby and it’s best if it’s somebody who doesn’t like to attend the family reunions.

- Ask a stranger for some. Take your chances and ask a healthy looking sperm source for his sperm and pray everything works out for the best. Note: This method of locating sperm has a 99.99% rate of failure.

- Ask an ally for some. Take a gay cruise and party with various sperm sources for a few days on board the ship. Get to know who is looking to make a trade, barter, or contribution and pitch your proposal before the ship docks. If you can make the exchange happen on board the ship you are a natural and are well on your way to making babies with your lesbian lover from here on out.

- Take some from the enemy. Pretend you’re straight and narrow. Go on a date with a homophobe, talk him into sinful premarital unprotected sex and take his virginity while you cry and then storm out. You’ll need a few drinks first but it’ll be totally worth it to raise his child with your lesbian lover as a big f*ck you to society!

****Okay I was just kidding about that last one! HaHa******

Julie Phineas is a work at home mom of 2 who lives in Southern California. You can find out more about her by visiting her page on MySpace.

**Warning: Some people may find this post offensive.**

Are you a lesbian looking to expand her family?

Having a baby is a great way to do that!

There are many options for expanding your family, but if you are a woman of child-bearing age, having your own baby is what I recommend. Of course there are other means of expanding your family such as adoption or blending families, but that’s not what this column is about! Lez Make a Baby is all about helping YOU get pregnant, especially if you are a lesbian. (Disclaimer: I don’t think my advice will work if you are a gay man.) That being said let’s get down to business and talk about The Different Options for Lesbian Conception.

You might be surprised to learn that you have options as a lesbian when it comes to conception.

Close minded heteros have made us believe that it takes one man and one woman to make a baby but that is FAR from true. Sometimes it takes one man, one woman, and her lesbian lover!! (Or a turkey baster.) It’s all very exciting! (Unless you melt the turkey baster while sterilizing.) The options really are endless and here are a few different options that I have found for lesbian conception if you are looking to expand your family…

Option #1
Give it the old college try.
Go out for a night with friends, and when your inhibitions are low enough make your move. You don’t have to know him, but be prepared to worry about STD’s if you try this method.

Option #2
Tell HER to do it.
Locate some sperm and give it to your girlfriend. Bend over and brace yourself. It helps if she has a sterile plastic syringe with which to knock you up.

Option #3
Do it your damn self.
Don’t wait around for help. Make an appointment with an IVF specialist and put your feet in the straps. Wait for the news you’re carrying twins and hope she doesn’t leave you.

Be sure to talk this all over with your Ob-GYN to give ‘em a heads up, and don’t forget to eat your wheaties every day no matter what. Healthy babies are in!

I hope you enjoyed this issue of Lez Make a Baby! You can expect more insights in the future on topics to help you make a baby such as locating sperm, the legal challenges of creating people and more. If you have a question you would like to ask you can send an email to lezmakeababy@yahoo.com.

Julie Phineas is a work at home mom of 2 who lives in Southern California. You can find out more about her by visiting her page on MySpace.